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Subject: Resources limited (yes) & step 3 during auction: power plants remaining rss

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UA Darth
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Played our first 6 player game and 2 questions came up.

1. Are the resources limited? In other words, if someone has 3 coal on their plant and 3 extra coal is needed to be replenished on the supply area, they are just left blank?

2. We reached step 3 in the middle of the auction phase. We placed the step 3 card as the highest plant. One more auction was won and not replaced. Then we removed the lowest plant number and the step 3 card leaving us with 5 plants. The manual said that there should always be 6 plants from now on. Do we simply add another plant?

Thanks!
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brian
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
1. Yes. Resource manipulation is a key strategy of the game.

2. The rules changed on this. I think most people play that you replace the auctioned off plant.
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Dan
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
1. Resources are limited, if they are all used up on power plants, then the supply does not fully replenish.

2. If the Step 3 card comes out during an auction, you did correctly to place it as the highest plant. Then after the auctions end, you remove the lowest plant and the step 3 card, and then if there's less than 6 plants, add another plant until you have 6, but do not draw replacements for the step 3 or the lowest plant, which would bring the total back to 8, keep it at 6.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
Even if the step 3 card is out, you continue drawing replacement plants from the draw pile until the auctions end. Then remove the step 3 card and the lowest plant. Then shuffle the draw pile. This is the correct procedure.
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Randall Bart
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
jlepack wrote:
Quote:
Even if the step 3 card is out, you continue drawing replacement plants from the draw pile until the auctions end.


This is wrong. While the Step 3 card is in the market no replacecments should be drawn. There are enough plants in the market to facilitate the whole auction phase.


No, Ponton is right and you are wrong. You are probably confused by a copy of the rules where the rule was mangled. Once the Step 3 card is drawn, it becomes the highest of the eight plants in the market. As more plants are bought that phase, replace them, keeping 7 plants and the Step 3 card in the market, even if you are in possession of a screwed up copy of the rules that says otherwise. When the phase is over, discard the Step 3 card and the lowest plant, bringing the market to six plants.

On your first point, if there aren't enough fuel tokens to replenish the market, these are lost. If someone is holding fuel this may mean the price can't get down to 1.
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Chris Linneman
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
Barticus88 wrote:

No, Ponton is right and you are wrong. You are probably confused by a copy of the rules where the rule was mangled. Once the Step 3 card is drawn, it becomes the highest of the eight plants in the market. As more plants are bought that phase, replace them, keeping 7 plants and the Step 3 card in the market, even if you are in possession of a screwed up copy of the rules that says otherwise. When the phase is over, discard the Step 3 card and the lowest plant, bringing the market to six plants.


So, upon reaching Step 3 in the auction phase you:

1) Place Step 3 card as highest plant
2) Shuffle remaining plants
3) Continue to replace plants that are purchased from the market
4) Once the auction phase is over, discard the Step 3 card and lowest plant from the market, leaving 6 plants that are all available for sale in the next auction phase (no future market)

Is this correct? I seem to be one of those people with a "screwed up copy of the rules".

I have to say, I don't think Step 3 has ever begun in the auction phase in games I've played. The market just fills up with plants no one wants until the removal of the highest plant in phase 5 eventually triggers Step 3.
 
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H-B-G
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
QBert80 wrote:
Barticus88 wrote:

No, Ponton is right and you are wrong. You are probably confused by a copy of the rules where the rule was mangled. Once the Step 3 card is drawn, it becomes the highest of the eight plants in the market. As more plants are bought that phase, replace them, keeping 7 plants and the Step 3 card in the market, even if you are in possession of a screwed up copy of the rules that says otherwise. When the phase is over, discard the Step 3 card and the lowest plant, bringing the market to six plants.


So, upon reaching Step 3 in the auction phase you:

1) Place Step 3 card as highest plant
2) Shuffle remaining plants
3) Continue to replace plants that are purchased from the market
4) Once the auction phase is over, discard the Step 3 card and lowest plant from the market, leaving 6 plants that are all available for sale in the next auction phase (no future market)

Is this correct? I seem to be one of those people with a "screwed up copy of the rules".

I have to say, I don't think Step 3 has ever begun in the auction phase in games I've played. The market just fills up with plants no one wants until the removal of the highest plant in phase 5 eventually triggers Step 3.


There have been several threads regarding this and whether the latest rules are mangled or not (they haven't, to my knowledge, been changed back), with those who say that they are and others who say that the non replacement rule is simply a clarification to enforce the point that plants placed under the step 3 card are not allowed to reappear in the market until after step 3 starts.

My own view, having read the arguments is that the change is probably intentional and quite possibly it was intended to be that way all the time, but despite that I will continue to play that the plants are replaced because any advantage given is to players later in the order, which is the intention of the way turn order is determined. Add to that I don't recall (in probably about 50 games) any situation where replacing the plants gave someone such an advantage that it caused a major swing in the result.

I think that you must decide for yourself how you will play, either according to how the rules are now written or according to how, I suspect, most others still play.

Edit:I've just been looking through past threads and was reminded that there was an official comment by Henning Kropke of 2F-Spiele stating that the new wording was correct here http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2521574#2521574. I will still play as I have always played. I also put a poll here to get others opinions http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/369223.
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
QBert80 wrote:

So, upon reaching Step 3 in the auction phase you:

1) Place Step 3 card as highest plant
2) Shuffle remaining plants
3) Continue to replace plants that are purchased from the market
4) Once the auction phase is over, discard the Step 3 card and lowest plant from the market, leaving 6 plants that are all available for sale in the next auction phase (no future market)

Is this correct?


Place (2) after (4). You DO NOT SHUFFLE the deck BEFORE step 3 commences. Step 3 always starts AFTER the triggering phase.
 
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H-B-G
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
jlepack wrote:
This just sounds stinky.

If the 50 arrives in the futures market during the first turn, and thus gets placed immediately below the step 3 card, I will manipulate the turn order and come up with the 50, and pay 50 for it every time. There's a countable number of cards in the deck, it's easy to know when the Step 3 card will come up, followed immediately by the 50.

I would much prefer to play by the "screwed up rules".

Note: Didn't realize this was one of those "holy war" questions. I have no desire to get tied up in it.


Personally I would shuffle the plants as soon as the step 3 card comes up, but even if you don't the situation you describe can't happen. If you continued to replace the plants and the 50 came up, it would remain in the future market until Step 3 actually began because it would always be the highest numbered plant.
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Re: 2 quick questions after first game.
jlepack wrote:
This just sounds stinky.

If the 50 arrives in the futures market during the first turn, and thus gets placed immediately below the step 3 card, I will manipulate the turn order and come up with the 50, and pay 50 for it every time. There's a countable number of cards in the deck, it's easy to know when the Step 3 card will come up, followed immediately by the 50. This might suit me if the shuffling of the cards below the Step 3 card were shuffled once the card was drawn.

I would much prefer to play by the "screwed up rules".

Note: Didn't realize this was one of those "holy war" questions. I have no desire to get tied up in it.


You never get the 50 BEFORE step 3! Remember you MUST NOT buy plants from the future market. The 50 can never be part of the current market unless in step 3 - where there are 6 plants in the current and no plants in the future market. So I don't understand your argument...
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