Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Citadels» Forums » Rules

Subject: Warlord/Armory Question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Graig Weston
Australia
flag msg tools
Hey All! I was just introduced to Citadels the other day, so bear with me if this question has already been covered ad nauseam.

During a game where I was king, and about to lose the match I might add, I was lucky enough to draw the armory on my turn. I then paid the gold to put it into play, and used it to destroy the potential winner's school of magic to prevent them from ending the match on their next turn. I had the assassin card at the time.

I was then told the following:

a) I need to be in possession of the Warlord character card in order to use the armory's special ability.

b) I can not deploy the armory and use it in the same turn.

Of course, this baffled me, as the rulebook mentioned nothing of this (as far as I was willing to look into it). I was just hoping one of you veterans could clear this up for me, and help out a newbie. Cheers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
No, the Armory is an independent building; it does not need the Warlord to activate. Compare it to the Graveyard for example.

The Armory can be used on the same turn as it is not "step specific." In other words, if you had a card that said "while taking actions..." and the action phase is over, then you couldn't use this special ability until your next turn.

Now, the only thing I could see as a potential issue is if the other person had ended the game or was about to end the game. Once teh game end has been triggered with 8 cities, you can't reverse it by destroying one of their cities. But if they were at 7, you destroyed the 7th so their "8th" became the new 7th, then that was legit. It hink you played it right but just in case I misread something.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graig Weston
Australia
flag msg tools
Thanks for the prompt reply! Yeah, I figured as much. Although I am new to the game, I was going by what was stated on the card, and couldn't find anything in the rulebook to prove me wrong.

The person who would have won was on their 7th district, so naturally this move would have been pretty game-breaking (not the mention the fact that I had crippled them with my assassin by correctly guessing their card, forcing them to miss their turn as well. Neither here nor there though, heh).

Their case was pretty much that I couldn't use the armory because the warlord is the only character card which allows for the destruction of buildings. As you said though, the armory does not state anywhere that it has a dependence on the Warlord, or any other character card for that matter. To me, that implies it can function on it's own.

Their next point was that there are other character-dependent districts, such as the ballroom which benefits the King. To me, this doesn't feel like a similar scenario at all, but oh well. I could only present my case so many times before I had to come running to the forums for answers.

Phew, a bit long-winded, sorry. Does anyone else have any input on the matter? Please post if you do!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Needs the Warlord to use the Armory? That could make sense, except it would've indeed been mentioned in the rulebook if it was allowed. Of course, by that logic, then any purple card involving getting money would require the Merchant, anything involving drawing cards would require the Architect, etc.

You got it right. Purple buildings need to be activated to be used, but they may be activated by any character. They can also only be used once per turn unless otherwise specified.



ColtsFan76 wrote:
Now, the only thing I could see as a potential issue is if the other person had ended the game or was about to end the game. Once teh game end has been triggered with 8 cities, you can't reverse it by destroying one of their cities. But if they were at 7, you destroyed the 7th so their "8th" became the new 7th, then that was legit. It hink you played it right but just in case I misread something.
That's where one of the cons of the games comes. Too much ambiguity in the wording of the cards and rules. The rule is that the Warlord may not target a district that is part of a completed city (8 or more). One interpretation is it's NOT the Warlord that's targetting a district if you're using the Armory, since using the Armory isn't specific towards the Warlord. On the otherhand, others would argue the intent of the Warlord NOT being able to target a completed district is to keep games from dragging on and that "when the game ends, it ends" rationale. In that case, the spirit of the rules would prohibit a player of ANY character from using the Armory to target a complete city as well.

For what it's worth, Bruno chimed in and said that using the Armory to attack a closed city was allowed, although there was no followup anywhere on how to handle that case. Would the victim STILL get the bonus 4/2pts? There are games that interpret "first to such and such" doesn't mean you have to maintain that condition don't (e.g. only specific one is Race For The Galaxy Gathering where upon after getting the Innovation Leader goal, you could discard a card like Doomed World and lose phase I and III powers, being no longer qualified for that goal of "one of each power on your tableau", but there's a general agreement from what I've noticed that you still keep it), so in Citadels, "1st to 8 districts" does not imply you need to maintain that many districts, you would just need to reach it. Ditto with the 3pt bonus?

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/794289#794289

My take would be if a district that was destroyed such that a city goes from complete to incomplete, I would allow ALL bonuses (4pt/2pt and 3pt for one of each color) as if the city were still around, but NOT allow the actual, face value points on the card, nor any bonuses on the card (Map Room gives you one pt per card in your hand and Treasury gives you one pt for each gold in your hand.)

Of course, push come to shove, you could always just house rule that. cool
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Kimball
United States
Shoreview
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It sounds to me like the person who was the target of your Armory and Assassin felt ganged up on and knew they would lose if they didn't win on the next turn....so they invented some lame excuses that weren't in the rules to ensure his/her victory. Clever ploy, eh?

The Armory card EXISTS so that non-Warlords may influence the number of districts in play. Making that card only playable with the Warlord is absurd and takes away from its importance. And as for not being allowed to use it immediately--as soon as someone lays down the 8th district we don't all heave a big sigh of relief cause "they can't actually win till next turn"....we groan because we've already gone this round and there's nothing more we can do.

I hope you win the next game, Graig, and make sure you clarify any such questions before the game starts so you don't get hosed again like before.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Acoriano3 wrote:
The Armory card EXISTS so that non-Warlords may influence the number of districts in play.
Also, that card also exists so that you can take out a high-cost building with more ease. Paying 3 gold to take out something that could cost up to 6 gold (if that opponent has a Great Wall, it would take 6 gold to destroy a 6-cost district) is a good bargain in my books. For the Warlord, it's particularily nasty since he can now take out 2 districts in one turn. One with his special power and another with the Armory.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Now, the only thing I could see as a potential issue is if the other person had ended the game or was about to end the game. Once teh game end has been triggered with 8 cities, you can't reverse it by destroying one of their cities. But if they were at 7, you destroyed the 7th so their "8th" became the new 7th, then that was legit. It hink you played it right but just in case I misread something.
That's where one of the cons of the games comes. Too much ambiguity in the wording of the cards and rules. The rule is that the Warlord may not target a district that is part of a completed city (8 or more). One interpretation is it's NOT the Warlord that's targetting a district if you're using the Armory, since using the Armory isn't specific towards the Warlord. On the otherhand, others would argue the intent of the Warlord NOT being able to target a completed district is to keep games from dragging on and that "when the game ends, it ends" rationale. In that case, the spirit of the rules would prohibit a player of ANY character from using the Armory to target a complete city as well.

Actually, the rule is the games ends once an 8th city is placed. So the game ends at 8 regardless. The Warlord is just clarified that it can't target an 8th city.

So even if the Armory could destroy an 8th city, the game would still be over.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Tubb
United States
Fuquay Varina
NC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think I read in an FAQ or something that the armory can destroy someone's 8th district, but the game will still end after the turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dennison Milenkaya
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Welcome aboard, Graig!

I think Steve's assumptions are absolutely correct, unless that player who gave the rebuff was just given a really poor run-down of the rules in the first place. You are right: -There is no law against this in the rulebook.

You may definitely use any purple district's ability immediately when you build it. The only exceptions are Observatory and Library because their benefits would only kick in before building, as Ron Winter suggests, above. Of course, the Hospital is also exempt, but obviously for different reasons!

In fact (and it says right on it) you can use the Bell Tower to end the game after a city reaches seven districts on the same turn that you build your seventh district--the Bell Tower itself--which debunks the myth that you cannot use a purple district's benefit on the same turn you build it. The only district that cannot be used during the same round is the Haunted City and it says so right on it, too.

The point is, all the rules governing the special benefits of purple districts are on the purple district cards. See pg 2 of the rulebook "Purple--Special (provides the special benefits described on the card itself)". There are absolutely no other rules to govern these cards in the book. You should've retorted that the very fact that you aren't using the Warlord's ability to destroy the district is exactly why you can do it without using the Warlord, if his city is complete, and if he has the Bishop. Those are all rules for the Warlord and the Warlord only (except that there is overlap with the Diplomat).

No disrespect to my man Ackmondual who is generally right on, and accurate above except in one moot point:--Any district benefit that can only be used once per turn says so right on the card and not the other way around. It just so happens that there isn't any benefit that can be used more than once at a time because they all have an effect with a specific trigger or timing or state that they can be used once per turn.

The specific point you address has been throughly diagnosed, but don't feel bad about bringing it up again. For a more interesting situation, see what happens when a player loses their eighth district to the Armory and then another via Warlord!:--http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/348593

Final analysis:--You can build the Armory and use its benefit immediately, regardless of your character, no matter if your victim is the Bishop, and even if the victim's city is complete. If a completed city loses a district, the game will still end after that round. For a discussion on how to score it (a bit more complicated matter), see the linked article included in this post.

I hope you enjoy the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.