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Subject: New Twilight Struggle Cards rss

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Jason Matthews
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Hey folks, this is a bit more like a thought exercise at this point. But the current printing of TS is about sold out. Some fans have suggested that we add some more cards. I am curious what fans on the Geek think would make good additions.

Card ideas that we have had in the past:

NORAD -- this would probably be a card similar to ROMANIA for the Soviets. It would basically give the US control of Canada and be a 2 OP card. Early War, IIRC

AWACS (someone recently suggested Faisal) -- this would be a Late War card that would help the US get back into the Middle East. Perhaps it would be linked to Soviet control of Iran or Iranian Hostage Crisis play? Saudi immunity to Muslim Revolutions? Probably 3 ops.

EUROPEAN STEEL AND COAL COMMUNITY -- this would be a 2 OP that would let you paratroop influence into Western Europe. But it would be a repeatable card that would be enhanced by the play of the Marshall Plan and NATO. So, if MP was played you could drop 3 influence into Western Europe. If NATO were played, you could drop 4. The object here is to add the missing link of western European post-war security -- economic integration, and also to show its interrelationship with the Marshall Plan and NATO. Early War.

CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS SUPERIORITY -- This would be a card reflecting the Soviet Union's numerical advantage in conventional forces vis a vis NATO. Perhaps its would allow the Soviets to manipulate DEFCON and MIL OPs simultaneously to their advantage. MIDWAR? Probably 2 OPs.

Anyway, throw your thoughts into the ring.

Jason

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I absolutely love the idea of a NORAD card (being a Canadian and all).

I also like the AWACS/Faisal card idea. The Muslim Revolution card can really hamstring the US player in the Middle East, and although the middle east was largely pro-Soviet (or Soviet aligned), there were some countries that were well disposed to the US too.

The other two cards also sound good.

There were so many events in the Cold War that could have made it in, but on the whole I'm pretty happy with the way the game has turned out.

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Jason Arvey
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I'd like to see a card that gives the Soviets a chance to get into Latin America early (other than Castro). Something like "Socialist Governments" only restricted to one country in either Central or South America. This card could then recreate the histroy of 1950s Guatemala.
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Jonathan Kinney
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My buddy Roger and I have played A LOT of TS over the past few weeks (thank you Wargamerroom - seeing we live across town and face to face on a daily basis is just not possible).

First off, let me say that we both LOVE this game. And if it didn't change we'd still play it like crazy. But that being said, a few tweaks never hurt...especially from a game-balancing perspective.

We just spent a good hour hashing through a number of cards that may work. We'd love to hear what people think.

Early War

Greek Civil War (2 Ops) Die roll of 1-3 Soviet influence increased by 2 and US influence withdrawn, 4-6 US-backed Royalists maintain control - US influence increased by 2. US gets +1 to die roll if Marshall Plan has been played.

Tito-Stalin Split - US (3 ops) all USSR influence removed from Yugoslavia

SEATO - US (2 ops) - add 3 US influence in any SE Asian country - no more than 2 per country

Mid War

Dulles and Massive Retaliation - US (4 ops) - for the remainder of the turn all war cards and coup attempts cost the Soviet player 1 VP

Hungarian Revolution - USSR (2 Ops) - remove all US influence in Hungary and add 3 USSR influence

Non-Alligned Movement

This was one we debated. I've included both the versions we talked about. I personally like the first one because it introduces a forced headline whereas Roger's version makes the card similar to a scoring card.

Must be played in the headline phase Both US and USSR players remove ALL influence in - Yugoslavia, Egypt, and Algeria (during mid war) and India, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia (during late war). This event takes place before any other headline card.and will be carried out unless EITHER player immediately plays (and discards without receiving any benefits) a war card (i.e., Arab-Israeli, Korean War, etc.).

or

May not be held. Both US and USSR players remove ALL influence in - Yugoslavia, Egypt, and Algeria (mid war) and India, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia (late war). This event must be played during the turn the card is drawn and will be carried out unless EITHER player immediately plays (and discards without receiving any benefits) a war card (i.e., Arab-Israeli, Korean War, etc.).

Berlin Wall - USSR (4 Ops) - all ops cards used exclusively in Eastern Europe are at -1 for the US for the remainder of the turn, and +1 for the USSR. Cannot be played after "Tear Down This Wall"

Prague Spring - USSR (3 Ops) - All US influence in Czechoslovakia is removed. USSR gains 3 ops in Czech and 1 RMO. Degrade defcon by one.

Operation Condor US (3 Ops) - US may remove 4 USSR IPs from South America no more than 2 per country.

Late War

Mikhail Suslov US (3 Ops) - If Solidarity has been played, the USSR player is forbidden from adding influence to Poland for remainder of the turn.

Soviets in Afghanistan US (3 Ops) - if the USSR has control of Afghanistan, then the card gives the US player equal influence. If the US has control of Afghanistan, then they get a free coup in Pakistan.

Found minor edits.

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Jason Matthews
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jonocop wrote:


Greek Civil War (2 Ops) Die roll of 1-3 Soviet influence increased by 2 and US influence withdrawn, 4-6 US-backed Royalists maintain control - US influence increased by 2. US gets +1 to die roll if Marshall Plan has been played.


Had this in the deck for a long time. I never liked how my card worked. Yours is more interesting. Would probably be better as a 1 op (as for 2 ops you can usually put influence in Greece with no risk).

jonocop wrote:
Tito-Stalin Split - US (3 ops) all USSR influence removed from Yugoslavia


This is what we had in mind with the card "Independent Reds." That's Tito's mug depicted.

jonocop wrote:
SEATO - US (2 ops) - add 3 US influence in any SE Asian country - no more than 2 per country


Hmmm, thought about SEATO and CENTO long and hard. They were just so historically useless, but I can see game balance value here.

jonocop wrote:
Mid War

Dulles and Massive Retaliation - US (4 ops) - for the remainder of the turn all war cards and coup attempts cost the Soviet player 1 VP


Dulles certainly deserves a card. But I have occasionally wished I knew more of the functionaries from the Soviet side whom might be included as well. Any Sovietologists care to lend their expertise?

jonocop wrote:
Hungarian Revolution - USSR (2 Ops) - remove all US influence in Hungary and add 3 USSR influence


This would make East European Unrest a bad thing. While it may have proved the hallowness of some right wing rhetoric about bringing freedom to the Eastern bloc for Dulles et. al. I still think in the fullness of history, Prague Spring and the crackdown in Hungary ultimately hurt the Soviet cause.

jonocop wrote:
Non-Alligned Movement

This was one we debated. I've included both the versions we talked about. I personally like the first one because it introduces a forced headline whereas Roger's version makes the card similar to a scoring card.

Must be played in the headline phase Both US and USSR players remove ALL influence in - Yugoslavia, Egypt, and Algeria (during mid war) and India, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia (during late war). This event takes place before any other headline card.and will be carried out unless EITHER player immediately plays (and discards without receiving any benefits) a war card (i.e., Arab-Israeli, Korean War, etc.).

or

May not be held. Both US and USSR players remove ALL influence in - Yugoslavia, Egypt, Zambia, and Algeria (mid war) and India, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia (late war). This event must be played during the turn the card is drawn and will be carried out unless EITHER player immediately plays (and discards without receiving any benefits) a war card (i.e., Arab-Israeli, Korean War, etc.).


This is another one I've thought about, but was never able to structure a card to my liking. Of course, the non-aligned movement was anything but. Castro was a member for pity's sake.

jonocop wrote:
Berlin Wall - USSR (4 Ops) - all ops cards used exclusively in Eastern Europe are at -1 for the US for the remainder of the turn, and +1 for the USSR. Cannot be played after "Tear Down This Wall"


There is definitely historical precedent for a repeating Soviet card on Berlin.

jonocop wrote:
Prague Spring - USSR (3 Ops) - All US influence in Czechoslovakia is removed. USSR gains 3 ops in Czech and 1 RMO. Degrade defcon by one.
See above . . .

jonocop wrote:
Operation Condor US (3 Ops) - US may remove 4 USSR IPs from South America no more than 2 per country.
Yes this deserves some attention. I think Junta captures some of the flavor, but Operation Condor merits special recognition.

jonocop wrote:
Late War

Mikhail Suslov US (3 Ops) - If Solidarity has been played, the USSR player is forbidden from adding influence to Poland for remainder of the turn.


Interesting idea.

jonocop wrote:
Soviets in Afghanistan US (3 Ops) - if the USSR has control of Afghanistan, then the card gives the US player equal influence. If the US has control of Afghanistan, then they get a free coup in Pakistan.


I like how this card works, but think of "Bear Trap" as representing the Soviet Union's venture into Afghanistan.
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Bill Hollebeke
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TS is in my opinion on of the best 2 player game in existence.
It is a very tense game when played with veteran players.

Why change it? Most suggestions for new cards make it easier for one of the 2 sides (US in Early War Europe, USSR in South America...).
I am afraid that such suggestions or alterations to the game will lead to more balanced buildup by both sides and make the chances on early victories less likely. What I like the most about TS is that it is a tense game from beginning till end. More balanced build up would push back the intensity till the later stages of the game.
I cannot say for certain that it will be so but that is what I am afraid of.

I would like to add: "never change a winning team".
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Jamie Pollock
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Hey Jason, I would love to see new cards!

Perhaps some less restrictive cards that allow for more creative play? One of my favourites is Brush War for this very reason! Or, perhaps some cards that would bring into play relatively unused countries on the mapboard, like Canada, Norway, etc. For example, temporarily making non-battleground countries into battleground countries similar to the Taiwan card, is a great way to do this. The historical relevance of this game is one of its major strengths, however, as we are playing it through and it's not a strict simulation, it would also be appealing to think that other things might have developed given different sequences of events.

Given the slight imbalance that the USSR has been shown to have over the USA in terms of victory chances, it might also be nice to see some small attempt at readdressing this? Having said that, I do like the fact that the USA seems to get stronger as the game goes on, so this would need to be done carefully so as not to upset the swinging pendulum too much.

But, most importantly, I would like to know, as a recent owner of TS this Christmas, if and indeed how these would be made available to existing owners? And likewise, the possibility of a proper mounted mapboard?



Best,

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Fabian Mainzer
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I like most of Jason's Expansion Cards, NORAD sounds good, AWACS can really help the US to get back into the MidEast, the European Community definetly has to be represented in the game (probably under the name "European Integration"?).

However, the idea I liked most, someone posted it on CSW (cannot remember who was it, sorry!) was a Late War Horn of Africa scoring card, giving 1 VP for control of Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia and 2 VP for control of Kenya or something like that. I feel that this particular region is often neglected in vanilla TS. One could also do a card about that weird Somali-Ethiopian War, but I have no idea how to implement that in game terms (maybe just a regular war card, though this is historically a little incorrect, as Somalia and Ethiopia literally swapped sides)

To think of some more pro-Soviet cards, how about "Soviets get the A-Bomb" or "Missile Gap"? A reoccuring Berlin Crisis card would be another idea.
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Monte Jones
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JasonMatthews wrote:
Hey folks, this is a bit more like a thought exercise at this point. But the current printing of TS is about sold out. Some fans have suggested that we add some more cards.


I hope the cards get added and that an upgrade pack make available for us previous TS owners.
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Brad Engels
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I love your game! Like your cards...they add some influence and flexibility for US in the early war but not too much.
 
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Ran
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I desire a Mounted Mapboard more.......
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Ethan Tan
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I think there ought to be a card for Che Guevara and the role his personality cult played in energising the socialist movement in Latin America. Perhaps +1 to all coups and realignments made in South and Cebtral America?
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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I would like to see more attention on the US' historical relationship with Israel. I don't think TS currently storyboards this very well.

In general, I'd like to see cards that do interesting and new things, not just fiddle with influence here and there tied down to a historical event.
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Eric Boivin
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Hum... New TS cards! Let's brainstorm. I really like your 4 ideas Jason, as well as the Operation Condor and Greek Civil War. Here are a few suggestions of my own.


Baghdad Pact (US) 2 Ops. Early war
For each of the following countries: Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Turkey, roll a die. 1-5 Add 1 US influence in this country. 6 Add 1 USSR influence.

The Baghdad Pact, commonly named the Central Treaty Organization, was an initiative to prevent expansion of the Soviet influence to the Southwest. The events that followed in the area made the alliance extremely volatile and it never reached the desired status of being a NATO-like structure in the Middle East.


ARPANET (US) 2 Ops. Mid war
Move up to 3 IP from a single country to another one where you have presence


(1969) ARPANET was initially a Cold War project to allow communication immune to nuclear attacks. It was created in response to the launching of Sputnik


Samantha Smith (US-USSR) 1 Ops. Mid war
If you are behind on the VP track, gain 2 VP

Samantha Smith was a young American who gained media attention when she wrote a letter to then General Secretary of the Soviet Union, Yuri Andropov asking why there was a war. Her letter was actually published in the Soviet media, and Andropov did wrote her back and invited her to visit his country. The media impact with this story managed to reduce tension on both sides.


After putting these out, I have to say that finding new cards for TS is more difficult than I thought! And like the previous poster said, finding original mechanics should also be considered!
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Mike Silbey
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More cards are always good, they could always be marked optional to keep purists happy.
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Russ Hewson
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I'd probably buy new cards, but not sure how much I'd actually play with them. To be honest the only change I'd make to the game would be to change Ames so that the US player is forced to decide and reveal his order of play at the start of the turn which is not only less of a kill switch it's more thematic of a mole leaking US plans.
 
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Gregory Curtis
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I really like the idea of a mini expansion of cards for TS. Some of the ideas listed here are sound great.

As far as some mechanics suggestions that would make things a bit more interesting...

(I will leave it up to you more knowledgable people to figure out what card it would work with etc etc)


- Id like to see a few cards that interact with the other player on things they do in a reaction type way. One example would be a card that when played makes the other player remove influence from the last country they played it in and place it in a designated region...like Central America for US and Asia for USSR or something similar.

Basically a card to do a "Not so fast...move that influence somewhere else" card. Could only be used on the last placed influence.

- Another idea is a card that allows you to "Gain influence equal to the top card value on the draw pile +1. Then place both cards in discard pile. If top card is a Scoring card gain +2 VP." This would just be a take your chances card to cycle a card into discard. Make it a 1 Ops card for both sides I guess.

- Also another interestig mechanic could be a swap cards with other player type play? "Pick 2 cards at random from other players hand. Give him one card from your hand in return."

Again just some ideas to mix things up a bit.

 
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Brad Engels
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A small part of me fears "diluting" the deck too much if too many cards are added. I would give it a try though, of course.
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Bill Romaniecki
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It was not clear in Jason's post whether the new cards would replace permanently existing cards or be optional. If their use would be optional, what would be the procedure for incorporating them into the game?Adding more cards would change the deck reshuffles.
 
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Jonathan Kinney
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It would be interesting to have cards that you could "swap out" similar to the way the expansion for Citadels works.

Or, maybe it's possible that, after playtesting the TS team feels that certain cards are valuable for tournament play while they might not be as valuable during one-off competitions.

I think the key here is options. If a purist wants to play it the way it was designed (either 1st or 2nd edition), fill your boots. But if there is a way to incorporate some additional historically interesting cards into the game (that can either enhance, or at least not detract from, playability), I'm all for it.

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Jonathan Kinney
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JasonMatthews wrote:
jonocop wrote:


Greek Civil War (2 Ops) Die roll of 1-3 Soviet influence increased by 2 and US influence withdrawn, 4-6 US-backed Royalists maintain control - US influence increased by 2. US gets +1 to die roll if Marshall Plan has been played.


Had this in the deck for a long time. I never liked how my card worked. Yours is more interesting. Would probably be better as a 1 op (as for 2 ops you can usually put influence in Greece with no risk).

jonocop wrote:
Tito-Stalin Split - US (3 ops) all USSR influence removed from Yugoslavia


This is what we had in mind with the card "Independent Reds." That's Tito's mug depicted.

jonocop wrote:
SEATO - US (2 ops) - add 3 US influence in any SE Asian country - no more than 2 per country


Hmmm, thought about SEATO and CENTO long and hard. They were just so historically useless, but I can see game balance value here.

jonocop wrote:
Mid War

Dulles and Massive Retaliation - US (4 ops) - for the remainder of the turn all war cards and coup attempts cost the Soviet player 1 VP


Dulles certainly deserves a card. But I have occasionally wished I knew more of the functionaries from the Soviet side whom might be included as well. Any Sovietologists care to lend their expertise?

jonocop wrote:
Hungarian Revolution - USSR (2 Ops) - remove all US influence in Hungary and add 3 USSR influence


This would make East European Unrest a bad thing. While it may have proved the hallowness of some right wing rhetoric about bringing freedom to the Eastern bloc for Dulles et. al. I still think in the fullness of history, Prague Spring and the crackdown in Hungary ultimately hurt the Soviet cause.

jonocop wrote:
Non-Alligned Movement

This was one we debated. I've included both the versions we talked about. I personally like the first one because it introduces a forced headline whereas Roger's version makes the card similar to a scoring card.

Must be played in the headline phase Both US and USSR players remove ALL influence in - Yugoslavia, Egypt, and Algeria (during mid war) and India, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia (during late war). This event takes place before any other headline card.and will be carried out unless EITHER player immediately plays (and discards without receiving any benefits) a war card (i.e., Arab-Israeli, Korean War, etc.).

or

May not be held. Both US and USSR players remove ALL influence in - Yugoslavia, Egypt, Zambia, and Algeria (mid war) and India, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia (late war). This event must be played during the turn the card is drawn and will be carried out unless EITHER player immediately plays (and discards without receiving any benefits) a war card (i.e., Arab-Israeli, Korean War, etc.).


This is another one I've thought about, but was never able to structure a card to my liking. Of course, the non-aligned movement was anything but. Castro was a member for pity's sake.

jonocop wrote:
Berlin Wall - USSR (4 Ops) - all ops cards used exclusively in Eastern Europe are at -1 for the US for the remainder of the turn, and +1 for the USSR. Cannot be played after "Tear Down This Wall"


There is definitely historical precedent for a repeating Soviet card on Berlin.

jonocop wrote:
Prague Spring - USSR (3 Ops) - All US influence in Czechoslovakia is removed. USSR gains 3 ops in Czech and 1 RMO. Degrade defcon by one.
See above . . .

jonocop wrote:
Operation Condor US (3 Ops) - US may remove 4 USSR IPs from South America no more than 2 per country.
Yes this deserves some attention. I think Junta captures some of the flavor, but Operation Condor merits special recognition.

jonocop wrote:
Late War

Mikhail Suslov US (3 Ops) - If Solidarity has been played, the USSR player is forbidden from adding influence to Poland for remainder of the turn.


Interesting idea.

jonocop wrote:
Soviets in Afghanistan US (3 Ops) - if the USSR has control of Afghanistan, then the card gives the US player equal influence. If the US has control of Afghanistan, then they get a free coup in Pakistan.


I like how this card works, but think of "Bear Trap" as representing the Soviet Union's venture into Afghanistan.


Thanks for the comments Jason. I didn't to quote within quote etc because it was getting way too confusing for me. But here are some of my thoughts and comments.

Greek Civil War - agreed. 1 ops makes much more sense

Stalin-Tito Split - I know what you're getting at, but I think that rather than allow "equal influence" from the US, Tito focused more on getting the rest of the world out of his backyard. In fact, maybe Yugoslavia should be removed from independent reds and given its own card. Don't know.

SEATO - I agree, SEATO was essentially useless (as is ANZUS - although maybe adding an ANZUS card that makes Australia a battelground state could actually lead to someone doing something there). But I think that it's important to recognize coordinated US influence in SE Asia.I see someone mentioned CENTO in a later post and that would be an interesting "counter-Iran coup card" if it was played as a headline at the top of Turn 1.

Our point in suggesting the Hungarian Uprising and Prague Spring is that, at least in the games we've played, the Central countries of the Bloc tend to be left empty...unless someone REALLY needs them to prevent (or achieve) domination (and even then 3 stability countries are a pain to control). With such a great big world out there, the Eastern Bloc tends to get overlooked by the Soviet player. But I agree that maybe Hungary doesn't make sense. But I think that Prague Spring, because of the reduction of the Defcon (due to the fact that not only the Soviets, but other Eastern Bloc countries invaded Czechoslovakia) could make it a card that could have negative repercussions for the Soviets.

Non-Alligned - I think I actually like it more for the forced headline mechanic rather than the usefulness of the card itself. I would love to see a card that destabilizes both superpowers - or at least has the potential to. And more importantly, one that has no strategically value to one side or the other as to when it's played. It just happens. One other thing we mulled was that it wouldn't actually go into someone's hand (thus depriving them of a card). If drawn it would immediately be played and whoever drew it would take another card.

Historically, I think that it's important to have a card representing the Berlin Wall.

I think that while Afghanistan maybe be what the Bear Trap was intended to represent, I think that because of the game itself it takes on a much larger role and an Afghanistan specific card is another way to potentially open Western Asian and the Middle East to the US if they've been shut out.


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eryn roston
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New cards would be awesome! I think Twilight Struggle is a fantastic game but I must admit I'm surprised at some key events that lack representation. My ideas for cards include:

------------

RED DAWN




If the USSR has more total influence in Central America, the US may not place influence anywhere on the map. Canceled by WOLVERINES!
----------------

Everybody Can Change!



If the US controls Italy, it gains 5 VP. Improve the Defcon to 5.

--------------------

Caterpillar Drive

reduce your opponents military ops to 0.


---------------------

Maverick

All Soviet war cards have a -1 penalty to their rolls.



----------------------

Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor.


The US player rolls 1d6. On a result of 6 the US player may examine the Soviet players hand cards. on any other result they may only examine the soviet player's actual hand (fingernails better be clean).



-E
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jonocop wrote:
I think that while Afghanistan maybe be what the Bear Trap was intended to represent, I think that because of the game itself it takes on a much larger role and an Afghanistan specific card is another way to potentially open Western Asian and the Middle East to the US if they've been shut out.


You're just saying that because I always shut you out of the Middle East! (just kidding - Jonathan and I each do out unfair share of shutting people out).

The thing about Bear Trap is that it's a mid-war card, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a late-war event. I was living in Germany at the time (my dad was stationed at the Canadian Forces base) and all NATO troops were recalled to base, my dad was away for the better part of two weeks in the nuclear bunker. The palpable tension in the air and the worried looks of people on the street are etched into my memory.

I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of C3i so I can try the new Chinese Civil War variant...
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Jason Sherlock
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This is the one that I had suggested earlier.

Faisal* - 1 OPS US EVENT- Early War - Put 2 US influence in Saudi Arabia. Prevents Muslim Revolt from affecting Saudi Arabia.

As the game is right now, the US has no reason to go into Saudi. An investment of 3 influence in a corner that can be easily wiped out by Muslim Revolts makes it not very palatable. Having a card that makes Saudi easier to get into and more "stable" seems more historical.

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Kevin Brown
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Houston, We Have a Problem 2 OPs, mixed, recurring, Mid War.

For the remainder of this turn, any opponent space race attempt requires an OPs value card one higher than normal, to a maximum of 4.


Luna 9 1 OP, USSR, *, Mid War

All USSR operations cards used for space race attempts increase their value by one (+1) for the remainder of this turn.


Challenger Disaster, 2 OPs, USSR, *, Late War

For the remainder of this turn, US may make no space race attempts. One Small Step... and Captured Nazi Scientist events may not be used by US this turn.


Pioneer 10, 1 OP, US, *, Mid War

US player may make an additional space race attempt this turn.
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