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Circus Maximus» Forums » Rules

Subject: Braking and cornering rss

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Thomas Fredericks
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Can you brake to reduce Corner Straining?

Here is the situation:
My chariot is on the inside lane, right next to the corner with a speed limit of 8.
If I write a turn speed of 10, can I brake for 2 MF (also wasting 2 endurance) to not strain the corner (as my resulting speed will be 8) ?
Or are corner strains always evaluated with the written turn speed?
 
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Geoff King
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But you check for corner straining at the start of your movement (or when your chariot counter enters the corner) based on your written speed + whipping the horses/lash attacks.
Braking won't reduce your speed for the corner strain check.
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Venton wrote:
But you check for corner straining at the start of your movement (or when your chariot counter enters the corner) based on your written speed + whipping the horses/lash attacks.
Braking won't reduce your speed for the corner strain check.


I don't think that is correct. In the situation the OP describes, the car is not yet in the corner. The OP could brake prior to movement (see Rule 6.21) thereby reducing speed to a safe level and avoid corner strain when the chariot does move into the corner.

I have always played (and if I am wrong, please correct me) that you can brake (and expend endurance) to avoid corner strain even if you start in a corner.

Example: At the end of Turn 4, you are midway through a turn in the "24" lane. You plot your speed for Turn 5 as 19. You then opt to lash but you roll a 6 (and have to remove six endurance points) resulting in a speed of 25. Being a coward, you do not want to chance rolling on the Corner Strain Chart so you brake 1 speed (spending an additional endurance point) bringing your speed back down to a safe 24. Note that you have spent a total of seven endurance points to do this. Too bad you just didn't roll a 5 for the lash!!!
 
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Thomas Fredericks
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Quote:
I have always played (and if I am wrong, please correct me) that you can brake (and expend endurance) to avoid corner strain even if you start in a corner.


Rule 7.31 states that to make a corner strain roll:

Take the total speed of the chariot (the written Turn Speed plus MF's gained through voluntary straining or enemy lash attacks), and substract from it the safe maximum speed for the corner lane the team occupies.


There is no mention of braking or MFs "spent" when evading modifying this total. But things get complicated when you read the following example below rule 6.511:

Assume a chariot avoided attack by evading to the inside. This lane change [...] was made at the cost of two MFs from it's next Movement Phase. These two MFs [...] do count as total speed expended in determining strain/flip point for purposes of Corner Strain and Chariot Flip chances.

I really love this game, to bad the rules are so unclear.
 
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Steve Bachman
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mrtof wrote:
Quote:
I have always played (and if I am wrong, please correct me) that you can brake (and expend endurance) to avoid corner strain even if you start in a corner.


Rule 7.31 states that to make a corner strain roll:

Take the total speed of the chariot (the written Turn Speed plus MF's gained through voluntary straining or enemy lash attacks), and substract from it the safe maximum speed for the corner lane the team occupies.


There is no mention of braking or MFs "spent" when evading modifying this total. But things get complicated when you read the following example below rule 6.511:

Assume a chariot avoided attack by evading to the inside. This lane change [...] was made at the cost of two MFs from it's next Movement Phase. These two MFs [...] do count as total speed expended in determining strain/flip point for purposes of Corner Strain and Chariot Flip chances.

I really love this game, to bad the rules are so unclear.

What isn't clear there? It states explicitly that the MFs from evading count towards total speed expended.

You are going into the turn with the speed written. Braking doesn't reduce that number, it merely slows you down. You are treating it as simultaneous movement (which I suggest you try not to do), but that is not how the game mechanics work. Using your example, with simultaneous movement, you are braking before entering the turn and not going anywhere. Therefore, you are not moving and should make an inertia roll to subtract from your speed, right?

The braking/attacks/evading etc. happen during the course of your move, not necessarily at the location where the rolls and moves took place. It is abstracted a bit here to allow for better gameplay. In the rulebook, they even mention the idea of simultaneous movement and said they designed away from that to make the game flow better.
 
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Thomas Fredericks
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The rules clearly state that total speed = the written Turn Speed plus MF's gained through voluntary straining or enemy lash attacks. There is no etc or ... in that ruling that would imply that any other factor can change this total speed.

The example cited comes a few pages before the actual rules. I did not find a rule that states that you use MF gained through evasion to calculate your full speed. The only mention is through an example, and is therefore unclear: some games use examples that are based on previous drafts of the rules, and this is what it feels like in this case.

About the inertia roll (1D6 subtracted from your written speed), the rules state that this rule is only used during the first turn of a race. Even thought it does not make any sense, there is no rule that states that if a chariot does not move, an inertia roll must be made next turn, even if you fail to cut away a dead horse for example.
 
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I think that you do not consider braking MF's during corner strains, i.e., it does not reduce your Turn Speed as written.

You have to have the wherewithall to anticipate your speed when entering a corner, and "slamming on the brakes" on a team of horses pulling a chariot is both unrealistic and unlikely. Sure, you can consume those movement factors at the cost of endurance points, but if you even sniff the corner, you'll have to check on the corner strain chart.

I think the rule is clearly written as is - "Take the total speed of the chariot (the written Turn Speed plus MF's gained through voluntary straining or enemy lash attacks), and subtract from it the safe maximum speed for the corner lane the team occupies. The difference is the number of strain/flip points."

No mention of braking whatsoever.

All braking does in this game is consume movement factors. Rule 6.61 even mentions an example tht alludes to that fact:

"For example, if a chariot comes up against an obstacle or corner with two MF's remaining, rather than take a chance he could brake for those two factors, and use up two endurance boxes instead of making further movement."

That implies entering the corner would require a corner strain check.
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