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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: HtH rss

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matthew stewart
Canada
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Hello
I need a little help with hand to hand
ok im looking through the advance rules O16.4.3 melee result . The side with the lower melee total has all of its participating units eliminated . In case of a tie both sides are eliminated . In case of a tie both sides are eliminated unless one player begins in a bunker or pillbox so the last paragraph for bunker and pillbox states . During melee the side that was the last sole occupent of a Bunker/Pillbox hex wins if the melee totals are tied . I understand the melee rules but in the grey out paragraph says . It can sometimes be advantageous to over stack when advancing into melee situation in order to have a better chance of winning it ( or as ambush insurance ) even though you likely lose one or more of those units to over stacking at the end of the turn . So what im asking is say i have 3 german units advance into HtH and say im fighting Russian and he has 2 units in the hex i understand 1 on1 unit fighting but how does this work for multiple units do you roll for 1 at a time then move to the next one or is it just one roll and thats it
I have not been in this situation yet so im not sure but having fun
Thanks in advance Matt
 
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Mark Bigney
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You sum the firepower of the active side (whether there is one unit or more) and add the value of a dice (card) roll. You then do the same for the inactive side. That's it.
 
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matthew stewart
Canada
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More easy and faster than what i thought
 
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Martin Seipp
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Gyges wrote:
You sum the firepower of the active side (whether there is one unit or more) and add the value of a dice (card) roll. You then do the same for the inactive side. That's it.


Actually the inactive side goes first and then the active player (O16.4.2 Melee Roll). This order is the same for playing Ambush actions in a melee or actions in general (A24.2 Timing). First inactive then active.

 
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matthew stewart
Canada
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So basically if it's a 1 on 1 fight and the defender of HtH has 2 ambush cards can end the fight before it begins 1 to break the unit 2nd to take it out
Or even if it's a 2 or 3 on 1 you can try to take one unit out before he plays his ambush cards if he has any right ???
 
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Alpha Mastrano
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An Ambush Action breaks one unit, so if you got more than one unit in melee and your opponent plays another Ambush, you can choose to eliminate the already broken unit or break another unit instead. This is why it's sometimes advantageous to overstack into melee. Light Wounds can be used to reduce a squad to a team instead of breaking it (or eliminating an already broken squad).

Also, although the cardplay is staggered, both players get to play all the Ambush cards they want, so even if all the attacker's units are eliminated due to Ambushes, he can still play any Ambush cards to break the defending units.
 
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matthew stewart
Canada
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Well now i see the reason why it's good to sometimes overstack
 
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Mark Buetow
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Matthew,

Remember a few other things about melee:

Weapons are NOT added to the firepower total.

Units that have a BOX around their firepower add 1 to the melee total.

If you lose the melee but could have won with a better die roll, and you hold the Initiative Card, you can pass it to reroll. Sometimes, in an important melee, you might want to do that.

Yes, you can end a melee before it begins if you have enough ambush cards to eliminate your opponent's unit(s).

 
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Alpha Mastrano
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And remember to take into account leadership bonuses, as well as the leaders' own firepower.
 
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matthew stewart
Canada
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You guys are awesome to take time out of your schedule to help out the new players
I keep forgetting about the initiative card
But i just keep looking over the game to come up with some strategies on what to do in different situations
But thanks again Matt
 
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Chadwik
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I have a well-worn thumbtack that I use to affix the Initiative card to my arm when I have it. I don't tend to forget it.
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Adam Ruzzo
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I feel that there may have been a misunderstanding earlier.

Remember, all ambush actions take place simultaniously. So, if you and your opponent go into melee with one unit each, and both of you play two ambush cards, both units die before melee happens. Just because the inactive player plays his ambush cards first DOES NOT mean his ambush cards take effect first. They take effect simultaneously.
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matthew stewart
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Hey chad i guess i could just thumbtack it to my forehead And turn around and say whats that pain ohhh thats right i have the initiative card cry
Thanks for the clear up adam
 
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Bill Powers
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I had my wife buy me a toy grenade for Christmas. I use that for the initiative as does not get lost in the mass of cards.
 
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matthew stewart
Canada
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Just one last thing ok say in HtH 1 on 1 fight each player plays a ambush card to break the unit then when they make there roll and get a tie and eliminate each other except if he is in a pillbox/bunker . Ok what happens when it comes down to the victory points . Does the victory tracker stay neutral who gets the victory points for the kill . Or does it go to the person who has the initiative marker . I'm just thinking about different things that can happen in the game .
 
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Mark Christopher
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MS_IGLOO wrote:
Just one last thing ok say in HtH 1 on 1 fight each player plays a ambush card to break the unit then when they make there roll and get a tie and eliminate each other except if he is in a pillbox/bunker . Ok what happens when it comes down to the victory points . Does the victory tracker stay neutral who gets the victory points for the kill . Or does it go to the person who has the initiative marker . I'm just thinking about different things that can happen in the game .


You just follow the rules: each person scores VPs for the unit it kills. For example, if each killed the other's squad, each player would get the points for killing a squad, and so yes, the VP track will remain where it is.
 
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Mark Buetow
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I think you're confusing what the Initiative Card does. In a melee (the proper term) units that tie will both be eliminated. As Markus notes, if they're equal in VP value, the VP marker won't change. The IC card doesn't matter there, other than if you pass it to reroll or make the opponent reroll.

IF, when the game ends, (at Sudden Death), the VP tack is at ZERO (after all objectives have been added up) the player with the Initiative Card will win.

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matthew stewart
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Sorry guys if i was not clear thats what i mean if the victory points are worth the same for both squads the marker stays neutral
Sorry if i got the Iniative cards rules wrong
I'm trying to get more games in i only get to play once a week right now i just started a new job so no time really
 
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Nick Avtges
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Bridger wrote:
I feel that there may have been a misunderstanding earlier.

Remember, all ambush actions take place simultaniously. So, if you and your opponent go into melee with one unit each, and both of you play two ambush cards, both units die before melee happens. Just because the inactive player plays his ambush cards first DOES NOT mean his ambush cards take effect first. They take effect simultaneously.


Is this correct? I've always played that Ambushes are resolved immediately and I cannot find anything in the rules that would support otherwise.
 
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Nick Avtges
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Imago wrote:
Also, although the cardplay is staggered, both players get to play all the Ambush cards they want, so even if all the attacker's units are eliminated due to Ambushes, he can still play any Ambush cards to break the defending units.


Same question...is this correct? Why aren't ambushes resolved immediately? I can't find anything in the rules to support your statement.
 
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Nick Avtges
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Answering my own question...A25 does point in the direction of simultaneous resolution, but doesn't spell it out specifically.

Quote:
IMPORTANT - All Ambush effects are resolved before Melee FP is calculated.


Is about as close as it gets.

Of course the gray box note:

Quote:
Note also that it is possible for both sides to be entirely eliminated via Ambush before the Melee Rolls would otherwise have been made.


Makes it clear as there isn't any other way for both sides to be completely eliminated unless Ambush are resolved simultaneously.
 
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Meng Tan
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nix342 wrote:
Answering my own question...A25 does point in the direction of simultaneous resolution, but doesn't spell it out specifically.

Quote:
IMPORTANT - All Ambush effects are resolved before Melee FP is calculated.


Is about as close as it gets.

Of course the gray box note:

Quote:
Note also that it is possible for both sides to be entirely eliminated via Ambush before the Melee Rolls would otherwise have been made.


Makes it clear as there isn't any other way for both sides to be completely eliminated unless Ambush are resolved simultaneously.

Sure there is:
(1) I advance my single squad onto your single squad.
(2) You play your two Ambush actions, breaking then eliminating my squad. Your Ambush actions have been resolved.
(3) Now I play my two Ambush actions, breaking then eliminating your squad (nothing in the rules that says I can't play those just because my squad's been eliminated). My Ambush actions have now been resolved.

So there is no need to invoke an simultaneity exception, although you could argue that in effect, it's the same as if Ambushes were resolved simultaneously.
 
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