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Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Cruisers and AA - How? rss

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Ian Duncan
United Kingdom
Galashiels
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If other players like me fancy some realistic protection from air attacks without having to build carriers, I think it makes sense to give this ability to the cruiser. But I'm not sure how.

Would cruiser AA be an every combat round ability, or not? I tend to think the former would work best as it represents the continuing AA threat to aircraft trying to press home their attacks.

Would cruiser AA be one die per cruiser as opposed to the one per aircraft of land AA? I think this would be more realistic.

Would cruiser AA be enhanced by the radar development, or not? Why not?

Would cruiser AA eliminate or fend off an air unit, forcing it to disengage? I quite like the idea of the latter, as a less drastic outcome!

Which of two types of air unit (bomber or fighter) would be affected by successful cruiser AA? Nominate target of AA fire first?

Not sure this early in the game experience how to go, but ready to listen to all opinions!
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John Griffey
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I would give both the Battleship and the Cruiser a fire strength of 4 when they target enemy aircraft in a naval combat. Targeting aircraft would be a special ability of Battleships and Cruisers both.

(In our heterodox house rules, we gave the Battleship two flak dice rolls. Each roll hits on a one (1), The flak dice are fired as a preliminary step in naval combat, prior even to Submarine surprise strikes. Of course, in our house rules, we also give the Fighters a deadly surprise strike shot at a targeted enemy units. Untargeted enemy Fighters must be targeted by Fighters first. So, a more robust flak is needed in our house rules version.)

In A&A-50 with the Cruiser, making it equal to a BB in ability to gun down aircraft makes the Cruiser a more attractive purchase, compensating for its weakness as an investment for surface naval combat. . .


 
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Greg Low
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iand wrote:
If other players like me fancy some realistic protection from air attacks with having to build carriers, I think it makes sense to give this ability to the cruiser.
I have to take the other side. Very few BBs and CAs had the AA power to merit more power to repel air attack than they already have.

The best AA protection is fighter cover. Next best is a land base bristling with AA guns. Late war BBs and CAs come in a distant third. Many early BBs wouldn't even rank, yet in A&A a BB unit is better defense than a fighter unit (due to 2 hits).

For most capital ships involved in the war, the current values are far too high.

The Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk by less than a hundred aircraft with minimal losses among the attacking planes. A Swordfish biplane effectively caused the downfall of the mighty Bismark. Neither is a likely event in A&A with BBs and CAs having as much AA as they already have!

-Greg
 
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John Griffey
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In the game A&A, in a mixed combat involving both ships and aircraft, the Subs and Destroyers along with the full-strength BB will take the hits first, then the Cruisers, then the Fighters and Bombers, then the Carriers and damaged Battleships will take hits. So a well planned naval attack in A&A will not lose any aircraft at all. In reality, lots of naval aircraft were lost,even in great triumphs such as the Battle of the Marianas.

Armament was not the Cruiser's only weapon against enemy aircraft. Their radar and Combat Information Centers could also kill enemy aircraft, by locating them in time for interception. Their their mid- war (1943+) flak was also formidable,along with that of battleships. Whereas the Brits lost lots of light cruisers in the Med to air attack in 1940-1941, we lost few cruisers to air attack in the Great Pacific War.

What you say about the relative value of air cover, naval base flak, and shipboard armament is true, but the game does not model air cover or naval base flak at all in its current rules. I see no harm modeling the third factor. One could argue that a special BB or CA ability to select aircraft should await "Radar" as a new game technology.

It would be realistic for game AAA to protect adjacent friendly ships, just as AAA protects land units.

In our house rules, we give all Fighters an opening fire step which precedes even the Submarine's surprise strike, and allows the Fighters to select their targets. So,having air cover is critical to the survivability of ships, especially the precious Aircraft Carriers. In our house rules, Fighters cannot freely target for surprise strike until all enemy Fighters have first been targeted.

 
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wodan wodan
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Here is my Cruiser fix:

Tactical Superiority: For each Cruiser in your fleet present, you may reduce the attack/defense power of a single enemy Destroyer or Fighter by 1. Units may not be reduced more than once, and whenever a Cruiser is destroyed, the Cruiser's owner must remove the corresponding reduction.
 
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John Griffey
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Someone should construct a poll on best cruiser fix. I've read seven ideas now.

A) Reduce cost to 10 IPC.

B) Move 3.

C) FLAK capability, either 1) as an AAA in land, or 2) select enemy aircraft for hits, or 3) roll one or two dice, hitting on a "1."

D) Sink two destroyers on a cruiser hit.

E) Reduce one destroyer's strength by 1 for each Cruiser present.

F) Make cruisers 2-hit ships, like Battleships, but reduce their strength to 2.

G) Give cruisers same anti-submarine capability as destroyers'.
 
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Thomas De Wolf
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This is a house rule for Cruisers I use, because I think the standard cruiser is a little bit to bland, it lacks something unique.

Naval Anti Air Assault Flak :
This ability gives the fleet with a cruiser a chance to repel aircraft. Just like AAA guns on land, only one die is rolled even if there are multiple cruisers in the sea zone. But a hit is scored on a roll of X or less, where X equals the number of your cruisers in the targeted seazone.

This roll is done just like the surprise attack of submarines. So every single combat sequence one die is cast after the submarines have resolved their abilities, but before the attacking units fire. When a hit is scored, the airplanes are not allowed to cast a die during that single sequence. The next sequence rince and repeat : resolve sub, resolve cruiser, resolve fire.

The repelled airplanes cannot be chosen as casualty in case of a hit. When at the final sequence of a combat round you scored more hit than there are units left except for the repelled planes, than those planes may retreat from combat. If the carrier they where on was destroyed, the planes are also lost in this case. (that is if they cannot retreat to friendly territory)


I think it’s a good rule because it doesn’t destroy airplanes it just repelles them. So it can screw your attack once in a while, but it won’t lose you the war. Furthermore it makes cruisers unique and it also gives an incentive to buy more cruisers because the more you have the bigger the chance to trigger the ability.

Now some of you will have noticed : yeah but if I can place together six or even five or four cruisers, than my fleet becomes immune to air assault. Indeed the magic word is ‘can’. Six cruisers will cost 72 IP, which equals nine DD or three BB and two Subs. Which also means you will not have diversified your forces, and this will leave you vulnerable to subs and BB combined with DD. Four or three cruisers is doable, and seems huge when faced with an aereal assault, but remember that they have to be present in the same sea zone, so you’ll not be able to spread out your fleets, if you chose to follow this tactic.

This new rule could eventually lead to new tactics such as a full scale cruiser assault on carrier ships and their support.
 
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Steve Fitt
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I also have thought that planes were underrated in A&A because their longer range than guns is not given to them. However I would not let them pick their own targets. So no need for other rules, just planes fire attacker & then defender, then subs, then the rest of the ships. Casualties of the planes should be able to fire back at the planes with a much reduced hit number. -2?
 
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