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Subject: The "positive" node cards rss

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M.
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Hi, could someone shed some light to the node-cards that have a positive effect/function for the corporate-player?

This is how I've understood it:
1. Runner makes a run on a subsidiary data-fort with a node-card installed (but not rezzed)
2. Just before the runner accesses the node-card, corporation can rez it, by paying it's cost
3. The runner can trash the node-card if he wants to (and has enough bits to do so)

So even if the Corporation paid the rez-cost of the node card, it is very likely that he'll never be able to use it's positive effect during his turn because the runner can immediately trash it when he accesses it during a run? Especially because the node-cards are mostly pretty cheap to trash.

Doesn't this make the "positive" node-cards a bit weak or did I miss something? Or are the node-cards usually just used as decoys and traps?
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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We can protect the nodes with ICE, just like any other data fort. This can make running on the node cost-prohibitive for the Runner.

We shouldn't bother rezzing the node right before the Runner accesses it, unless it will affect the Runner in some way. Don't waste our bits.

Also, we can rez the node at any time during our turn, so we can get its benefit before the runner even has a chance to run on it, if we manage our actions well.
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Gary Pressler
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sdiberar wrote:
Also, we can rez the node at any time during our turn, so we can get its benefit before the runner even has a chance to run on it, if we manage our actions well.


This is likely the part that you missed, M. The Corp player can rez a card at any time, they do NOT need to wait for the Runner to access the data fort. The node card can act as a decoy, but if the Corp player can benefit from its positive effect, they should rez it. Often the Corp player will rez a node card immediately after installing it.
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M.
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Ah, thanks again! Apparently I'm reading the rules a bit too selectively. So only ice can be rezzed only during a run. I thought it was also the corporate nodes and upgrades. Thank you!
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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We believe ICE can be rezzed anytime on our turn as well. Such a move would have little value, but from what we recall it is not prohibited.
 
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sdiberar wrote:
We believe ICE can be rezzed anytime on our turn as well. Such a move would have little value, but from what we recall it is not prohibited.


From page 38 of the rules:

"The only time we may rez a piece of ice is when the Runner approaches that ice during a run on the fort."
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Frizzler
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As an addition, here is all you need to know about when Corporate cards can be rezzed (quoted from the rulebook):

"
REZZING CORPORATION CARDS: With the exception of agendas, our installed cards must be rezzed, or made active, before they can be used. When we rez a card, we turn the card face up. We can only rez ice cards when they are approached by the Runner during a run (see Runs and Countermeasures). We can only rez other cards at the following times:

* at the start of either player's turn;
* after each action;
* during a run while the Runner approaches a piece of ice and while the Runner passes a piece of ice;
* just before the Runner accesses a fort's contents, whether or not the Runner encountered ice during the run.
"

edit: note that the Corp cannot rez Nodes and Upgrades at the start of a run (which is important because of Newsgroup Taunting and Street Enforcer)
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Eugene
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fabianfritzer wrote:
during a run while the Runner approaches a piece of ice and while the Runner passes a piece of ice

edit: note that the Corp cannot rez Nodes and Upgrades at the start of a run (which is important because of Newsgroup Taunting and Street Enforcer)

These two seem to contradict.
 
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Eugene
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fabianfritzer wrote:
We can only rez other cards at the following times:
* after each action

Not that it matters, but does this mean after each action by either player?
 
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Frizzler
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garygarison wrote:
fabianfritzer wrote:
during a run while the Runner approaches a piece of ice and while the Runner passes a piece of ice

edit: note that the Corp cannot rez Nodes and Upgrades at the start of a run (which is important because of Newsgroup Taunting and Street Enforcer)

These two seem to contradict.


Hi Gary,

yes, at first sight those two seem to contradict - approaching the outermost piece of ICE seems to be the same as the start of the run.

But please look at the run flow chart:
http://www.netrunneronline.com/documents/CB5%20RFC%20b.pdf

You see that the start of run is a separate phase. The Corp cannot rez nodes and upgrades then, but it can e.g. move Glacier or use Siren.

There also exists an explicit ruling for Newsgroup Taunting:
"The Corp cannot rez Newsgroup Taunting at the start of a run; to force the Runner to pay the extra bit, Newsgroup Taunting must already be rezzed when the Runner declares the run."
See http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/newsgroup-taunting/
The same applies to Street Enforcer.

SeeYa, Frizzler
 
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Frizzler
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garygarison wrote:
fabianfritzer wrote:
We can only rez other cards at the following times:
* after each action

Not that it matters, but does this mean after each action by either player?


Hi Gary,

another good question.
I say yes, after each action of either player.
I cannot easily think about a node where rezzing it after a runner action would make sense, but I am sure it is allowed.

This is implied by the following ruling:
"
Card Effects
@Either player can use special effects during the same times
the Corp can rez cards. However,if the effect requires
a cost of one or more actions, it can only be used
during that player's turn. (Netrunner FAQ v1.0,
5/23/96)
"
found on http://www.netrunneronline.com/rules/?s=3.
Examples for a special effect is the corp gaining bits from Government Contract or Runner triggering a Swiss Bank Account.

SeeYa, Frizzler
 
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Eugene
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fabianfritzer wrote:

Thanks for the link. I hadn't come across that. It also clarifies a question I've had about the order in which cards are accessed after a successful run on a fort. Essentially, all cards -- exposed and unexposed -- are revealed to the runner, who then chooses the order in which to access and resolve them, correct?
 
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Frizzler
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garygarison wrote:
fabianfritzer wrote:

Thanks for the link. I hadn't come across that. It also clarifies a question I've had about the order in which cards are accessed after a successful run on a fort. Essentially, all cards -- exposed and unexposed -- are revealed to the runner, who then chooses the order in which to access and resolve them, correct?


Not exactly: Runner already chooses the order of access in step 46. The unrevealed installed cards are revealed only in step 47.

But this doesn't make a big difference anyway, as there are not many cards that have an effect on access without being rezzed (it is only Fetal AI, Marked Accounts, Virus Test Site and Viral Breeding Ground).

A related question is whether the cards stored in R&D / HQ are revealed to Runner before he chooses the order of accessing them. This is relevant if Runner accesses multiple cards stored in R&D / HQ.
Sadly, this question is not explicitly answered neither by the rule book nor by the run flow chart. In some special cases, the order of accessing is important though (when Arasaka Owns You / Emergency Self Construct meet Trap / Setup). A year ago, a discussion for consolidating the rules was started on netrunneronline, maybe we will one day finish it and close this rules gap.
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