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Subject: Procedure for feint, atack declaration and subsequent movement rss

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Marc Bosch
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The rules and several posts are clearly stating that after a feint is declaired, the attacker has to make the atack declaration, thus giving an individual or corps command to the units in the attack locale. The rules also mention that:

a)the unitis in the approach must remain there
b) Units in in the reserve can stay in reserve or move to the attack approach (but not split into the two options)

If my understanding is correct, I come to the conclusion that:

a) If the units are in the approach, I must spend a command (corps or indiviudal) but the units will not move at all from the approach. This could mean that:

a.1) In case the army was a corps, I can only make a Detach move or an individual move in order to detach units from the corps but keeping them in the approach locale
a.2) In case I have only individual units, I can only spend an independent command to move the unit, but the question is "To move where?" considering that per the rules it it has to stay on the locale approach!


b) If the units are in the reserve, the units can stay in the reserve or move to the attck approach (but not splitting)

b.1) In case the units are from a corps, I must spend a corps move to move all the corps to the approach (not leaving any unit behind), a detach move to detach few units and keep them in the reserve or an individual command to detach a unit and keep it in the reserve.
b.2) In case the units are independent and there is only one unit, I must spend an individual order to move it to the approach (there is no option to stay in the reserve if I give an individual command)
b.3) In case I have several independent units. I see no possibilities of giving a command order and not splitting the units betwen reserve and approach by moving the unit that got the independent command. So, maybe I'm a bit lost, but if I spend an individual command, I have to move the unit and leave others behind thus breaking the "unity" rule; the other option would be to give the command but not move the unit, which seems not logical at all and against the rules anyway. A third option would be to give as many as independent orders as units are in the reserve, but this may not be possible simply beacuse there are more units than individual orders. So, how should I proceed to keep all the units in the reserve or to move all the independent units to the approach as it's mandatory according the rules?

At this point I would appreaciate If somebody could confirm whether my understandigs of a.1) b.1) and b.2) are correct and how to proceed in a.2) and b.3)

Thanks in advance

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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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mboschbo wrote:

a.1) In case the army was a corps, I can only make a Detach move or an individual move in order to detach units from the corps but keeping them in the approach locale


You could also use a corps move.

mboschbo wrote:

a.2) In case I have only individual units, I can only spend an independent command to move the unit, but the question is "To move where?" considering that per the rules it it has to stay on the locale approach!


You would remain in place. Expending the command doesn't force physical movement.

The rest of your questions revolve around this point. A feint always burns a command, and the command must be one which could have moved one or more units into the defending locale. Having declared the feint, actual physical movement (as you have outlined above) may or may not take place. It is not uncommon to make a feint and hold your current position.
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Marc Bosch
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Thanks for the quick response Sphere. It's completly true that all my questions were around the fact of assuming that a command imply movement or detachment/attachments of units. But I would like to point that in the rules, the commands are described as:

- Corps Move
- Detach Move
- Attach
- Unit Move

Therefore always linking commands with movement of units. I've not seen a word in the rules (specially not in the feint chapter) where you are allowed (or forced) to spend a command but not moving a single unit.

I've looked for it several times, but it's possible that not quite carefully. So maybe it's there and I have not realized it.

Thanks anyway for your support (and Bowen's) not only in this post but all the rest published in BGG. The game is really great.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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mboschbo wrote:
I've not seen a word in the rules (specially not in the feint chapter) where you are allowed (or forced) to spend a command but not moving a single unit.


Page 6, top of left column (excerpt from (3) Feint Option):

"If the attacking pieces start their move blocking the attack approach, they must end it in place. If the attacking pieces start their move in reserve..., they may end it either in reserve or blocking the attack approach."

mboschbo wrote:

I've looked for it several times, but it's possible that not quite carefully. So maybe it's there and I have not realized it.


You more or less quoted it at the top of your first post, but perhaps didn't follow the implications to their logical conclusion. It's really easy to do that, it happened to me many times as I was learning.

mboschbo wrote:

Thanks anyway for your support (and Bowen's) not only in this post but all the rest published in BGG. The game is really great.


I'm more than happy to help. I agree that it's a great game, but it takes perseverance to figure out how it works.
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re: the logical conclusion.

I should have said that with no prohibition on single unit attacks/feints, it follows that their must be cases where a 'move' may be 0 distance. It would have been far better if the rules said that explicitly, rather than leave it as a logic problem.
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Marc Bosch
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Sphere wrote:
re: the logical conclusion.

I should have said that if you follow that rule when you've only got one unit to feint with, it becomes clear that their are cases where a 'move' must result in a move of 0 distance.


Exactly Sphere, following the logical implications of the rules leads you to the situation of a.2) and b.3) where there is no other solution than assuming that move doesn't mean always move. But it would have helped to have it a little bit more clear in the rules!

By the way, it's time to go for the 4th game where I finally expect to defeat Napoleon wiht the (hopefully) clear undesrtanding of all the rules!

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Rachel Simmons
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The existence of "moves" where no units actually move could no doubt be clearer than it is, but there is this rule, which was intended to help

"If an attack ended with the attacking pieces
still in the attack locale, the command(s) are still
expended for the attack, and the pieces are considered
to have moved during the turn (i.e. – the
pieces are not eligible to receive another move
command that turn)."

It is intended to be legal for units making an attack to make a "move" that ends with them staying in place.
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Garry Haggerty
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The key issue about movement has been resolved already, but I thought it might be worthwhile to clarify a couple of points raised in question b.3):

mboschbo wrote:

b.3) In case I have several independent units. I see no possibilities of giving a command order and not splitting the units betwen reserve and approach by moving the unit that got the independent command. So, maybe I'm a bit lost, but if I spend an individual command, I have to move the unit and leave others behind thus breaking the "unity" rule...


The "splitting" restriction doesn't apply to independent units, only to units in a corps (in fact, it really only affects a corps comprised of cavalry units making an attack by road move).

There's no unity to preserve in the case of independent units.

mboschbo wrote:
...the other option would be to give the command but not move the unit, which seems not logical at all and against the rules anyway.


Depending on tactical circumstances, sometimes it will be logical and sometimes not. But, as George and Bowen clarified, it's always a legal option.

mboschbo wrote:
A third option would be to give as many as independent orders as units are in the reserve, but this may not be possible simply beacuse there are more units than individual orders. So, how should I proceed to keep all the units in the reserve or to move all the independent units to the approach as it's mandatory according the rules?


You're only required to issue one Unit Move command to one independent unit to complete the attack. That unit may remain in reserve or move to block the attack approach.

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Jim Cote
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If you do feint from reserve, declare a unit move as your attack move, but leave it in place, are you now detached? Sorry if I missed this above.
 
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Mark Buetow
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ekted wrote:
If you do feint from reserve, declare a unit move as your attack move, but leave it in place, are you now detached? Sorry if I missed this above.


Yes.
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