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Richard Hefferan
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I'm really disappointed in the majority of people who support President Obama. It's not that I don't like the guy. I think his ideas and vision are a wonderful thing, if highly improbable. I've always thought he's got a far bigger vision than he will accomplish. Then again, I'm a cynic.

What I'm really disappointed by is that it seems the people that voted for "change" seem to be content to wait around for it to find them. Like just voting for the right president is enough to fix every problem, make our society utopic. It's just crap, and lazy crap at that.

Change happens because we make it. It's the hours we put in at the local hospital to improve the quality of life for the infirm, or the time we spend with our children giving them the education, love, and direction that will guide them to being the great people they can be. It's certainly not to be won by turning up at the polls once every four years and waiting for everything to get better. No polititian can create a great community. Only the people are capable.

President Obama knows we all have to roll up our sleves and make our world better, one hour at a time. He is in the unique position to fully understand how little he can actually do. He seems to be a polititian with the ability to motivate unlike any we've seen in generations, but so far his flock don't appear to get the true message. Here's to hoping they get smart enough to put forth the effort.
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Lynette
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[snark] Hey what are you talking about, HOLLYWOOD already made a video with stars vowing to reduce the amount of bottled water they drink and shop with reusable grocery bags. To help our new Pres know he is NOT alone! The world is already halfway to saved. [/snark]


Ok all snarking aside, the man hasn't even been in office for two weeks yet. I am willing to give him a least his 100 day honeymoon for him to start really pushing his supporters to do something on the ground. Just taking over day to day operations and learning the job has got to be hard.

As for his supporters, I believe a significant proportion of his younger fans will be inspired to get out and make a difference! Like JFK inspired in his time. But as the election fervor wains most won't. We live in a lazy ego-centric society for the most part.
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Matthew Kloth
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If I get healthcare before his 4 years are up, I'll be happy enough. Everything else is secondary to me. Right now I have no healthcare at all, and can't get any. I'm not going to die any time soon, but there are some retarded ass complications stopping me from getting insured. If I break my leg I'll probably sink back down into the poverty I just crawled my way out of.

The socialization of America would be nice, but I'm easily bought off with having my own life secured.
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Lynette
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MusedFable wrote:
If I get healthcare before his 4 years are up, I'll be happy enough. Everything else is secondary to me. Right now I have no healthcare at all, and can't get any. I'm not going to die any time soon, but there are some retarded ass complications stopping me from getting insured. If I break my leg I'll probably sink back down into the poverty I just crawled my way out of.

The socialization of America would be nice, but I'm easily bought off with having my own life secured.


FYI

This thread OP was about what his supporters are/aren't doing/going to do as inspired by Obama. Not Obama himself through his official powers.
 
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Matthew Kloth
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Meerkat wrote:
MusedFable wrote:
If I get healthcare before his 4 years are up, I'll be happy enough. Everything else is secondary to me. Right now I have no healthcare at all, and can't get any. I'm not going to die any time soon, but there are some retarded ass complications stopping me from getting insured. If I break my leg I'll probably sink back down into the poverty I just crawled my way out of.

The socialization of America would be nice, but I'm easily bought off with having my own life secured.


FYI

This thread OP was about what his supporters are/aren't doing/going to do as inspired by Obama. Not Obama himself through his official powers.
I'm an Obama supporter. I voted for him. I convinced some other people to vote for him.

Now that he's elected I'm not going to do shit, but wait for him to do his job. I can't do anything by myself to change anything meaningful. I'm busy not fucking my life up. That's why we have elected officials.

What does the OP expect people to do?
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Jeff
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Meerkat wrote:

Ok all snarking aside, the man hasn't even been in office for two weeks yet. I am willing to give him a least his 100 day honeymoon for him to start really pushing his supporters to do something on the ground. Just taking over day to day operations and learning the job has got to be hard.


Amen. We just got finished with 8 years of hard fucking. Let us enjoy our cigarette before kicking us out of bed.
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Tony Allen
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MusedFable wrote:
I'm an Obama supporter. I voted for him. I convinced some other people to vote for him.

Now that he's elected I'm not going to do shit, but wait for him to do his job. I can't do anything by myself to change anything meaningful. I'm busy not fucking my life up. That's why we have elected officials.

What does the OP expect people to do?

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MusedFable wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
MusedFable wrote:
If I get healthcare before his 4 years are up, I'll be happy enough. Everything else is secondary to me. Right now I have no healthcare at all, and can't get any. I'm not going to die any time soon, but there are some retarded ass complications stopping me from getting insured. If I break my leg I'll probably sink back down into the poverty I just crawled my way out of.

The socialization of America would be nice, but I'm easily bought off with having my own life secured.


FYI

This thread OP was about what his supporters are/aren't doing/going to do as inspired by Obama. Not Obama himself through his official powers.
I'm an Obama supporter. I voted for him. I convinced some other people to vote for him.

Now that he's elected I'm not going to do shit, but wait for him to do his job. I can't do anything by myself to change anything meaningful. I'm busy not fucking my life up. That's why we have elected officials.

What does the OP expect people to do?


Why do anything when you can wait for others to do it for you?

The issue is that reforming America and "changing" the way business is going to be done isn't going to happen because of Obama being elected. It is going to require people to be involved in their communities, local elections, state elections, etc. Changing away from the perceived greediness of our country will require sacrifice from everyone -- as an example, where do you think the money for the stimulus is going to come from?

Most people are not ready to hear that they will have to give up some portion of their idealized version of the American Dream. The hardcore liberals that I know just think that change is going to rain down from Obama like manna from heaven. On the contrary, I predict there will be little real change because the people themselves don't want real change; they just wanted something that wasn't Bush/Cheney. Our country has been doing business the same way since WWII....don't get your hopes up that things will be different by 2012.
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David desJardins
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steinley wrote:
Changing away from the perceived greediness of our country will require sacrifice from everyone -- as an example, where do you think the money for the stimulus is going to come from?


Most of the people whom you are addressing here have to pay their taxes because their income is reported by their employer and their taxes are automatically withheld. They don't get a choice about whether to pay, like Geithner and Daschle. So it seems to me they are already doing their share. Maybe it's time for the rich folks to chip in.
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William Boykin
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MusedFable wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
MusedFable wrote:
If I get healthcare before his 4 years are up, I'll be happy enough. Everything else is secondary to me. Right now I have no healthcare at all, and can't get any. I'm not going to die any time soon, but there are some retarded ass complications stopping me from getting insured. If I break my leg I'll probably sink back down into the poverty I just crawled my way out of.

The socialization of America would be nice, but I'm easily bought off with having my own life secured.


FYI

This thread OP was about what his supporters are/aren't doing/going to do as inspired by Obama. Not Obama himself through his official powers.
I'm an Obama supporter. I voted for him. I convinced some other people to vote for him.

Now that he's elected I'm not going to do shit, but wait for him to do his job. I can't do anything by myself to change anything meaningful. I'm busy not fucking my life up. That's why we have elected officials.

What does the OP expect people to do?


Politicians are not superheroes. If YOU are not involved, they will know this.

The simple truth of politics is that Politicians represent the people who are involved in politics. If the only people interested in the day to day of politics are lobbyists, then THOSE INTERESTS are the people that politicians will support.

Be active, and you can keep their feet to the fire, as it were. If you just passively expect them to 'do their job', they will- but it won't be to represent YOU.

Darilian
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Matthew Kloth
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steinley wrote:
Why do anything when you can wait for others to do it for you?

The issue is that reforming America and "changing" the way business is going to be done isn't going to happen because of Obama being elected. It is going to require people to be involved in their communities, local elections, state elections, etc.

I don't wait for others to do anything. I pressure them into doing it. I can only effect things in a small way, because I have almost insignificant power at this time.

Yes, Obama being elected will change how business is run. That's a fact. How much he changes is debatable. His election will have a strong effect on if/when/how universal healthcare is implemented in the US. Me electing a new county commissioner (go Rob Handy) isn't going to get me healthcare. Obama backed by Democratic houses should. Local elections are important, but they obviously can't create as widespread a change as a national election.

Quote:
Changing away from the perceived greediness of our country will require sacrifice from everyone -- as an example, where do you think the money for the stimulus is going to come from?

I don't want to change away from greediness. In fact I want the middle class and poor to become greedier. Right now they let others walk on them. They should demand more.

I think the money for the stimulus is a loan that I'll have to pay back later. I make fuck-all money right now, and it's very hard to dig out. A hospital visit will drop me back into poverty. I live paycheck to paycheck. I'd like to start a small business, but banks are tightening up right now (reasonably). The stimulus might give me enough short term savings to not crash on the next bump I hit, and it might allow me to make that business loan.

If I turn out a success and create a small business and make a real income in the future years I'll be able to pay back the stimulus "loan" with my future taxes.

That's a personal story, but I think it metaphorically applies to the whole US. An infrastructure improvement will likely pay off with increases productivity. A stabilized healthcare situation should reduce stress in peoples lives which should also improve productivity.
Quote:
Most people are not ready to hear that they will have to give up some portion of their idealized version of the American Dream.

What portion do they have to give up? What is this idealized version you think everyone holds?

I think of the American dream as "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". That means everyone should be given a basic level of health, freedom, and upward mobility (education and access to money mostly). I don't think anyone has to give up any healthcare, freedoms, education or support (welfare).
Quote:
The hardcore liberals that I know just think that change is going to rain down from Obama like manna from heaven. On the contrary, I predict there will be little real change because the people themselves don't want real change; they just wanted something that wasn't Bush/Cheney. Our country has been doing business the same way since WWII....don't get your hopes up that things will be different by 2012.
I completely disagree with everything in that paragraph. I obviously don't know the "hardcore liberals" you know, but they wouldn't have downs syndrome would they? WTF is "real change"? Apparently "real change" doesn't include shutting down gitmo, passing a giant stimulus package, likely adding universal healthcare, and the piles of shit conservatives complain about.

I think Obama is a "real change" from Bush.
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Matthew Kloth
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Darilian wrote:
Politicians are not superheroes. If YOU are not involved, they will know this.

The simple truth of politics is that Politicians represent the people who are involved in politics. If the only people interested in the day to day of politics are lobbyists, then THOSE INTERESTS are the people that politicians will support.

Be active, and you can keep their feet to the fire, as it were. If you just passively expect them to 'do their job', they will- but it won't be to represent YOU.

Darilian
How are they going to know if I am involved? What fire can I possibly burn them with? My leverage is my one vote, and my meager $50 donations (that's if I'm lucky). If I'm lucky they'll read my letters.

What should I do tomorrow? The day after?

The reason lobbyists where listened to was money. The situation is slightly better now, but I'm under no illusions that money still isn't the largest talker.
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Jess i TRON
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steinley wrote:
The hardcore liberals that I know just think that change is going to rain down from Obama like manna from heaven


Are these hardcore liberals, or hardcore Democrats?

The hardcore liberals I know think Obama is a within-the-system player who won't shake things up too much in Washington. He's a big improvement over Bush already, but that isn't saying much.
 
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Jess i TRON
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MusedFable wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Politicians are not superheroes. If YOU are not involved, they will know this.

The simple truth of politics is that Politicians represent the people who are involved in politics. If the only people interested in the day to day of politics are lobbyists, then THOSE INTERESTS are the people that politicians will support.

Be active, and you can keep their feet to the fire, as it were. If you just passively expect them to 'do their job', they will- but it won't be to represent YOU.

Darilian
How are they going to know if I am involved? What fire can I possibly burn them with? My leverage is my one vote, and my meager $50 donations (that's if I'm lucky). If I'm lucky they'll read my letters.

What should I do tomorrow? The day after?

The reason lobbyists where listened to was money. The situation is slightly better now, but I'm under no illusions that money still isn't the largest talker.


You can write those letters. Write especially to your Congressional representatives. You can participate on blogs and support news sites that push for real change.

Locally, including at the state level, we can accomplish a lot more. Look at what's on the agenda in your state legislature, and let your state rep and Senator know what you think. They're a lot closer to individual constituents.

Educating the people around you, in casual conversation, helps too.
 
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William Boykin
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Two simple ways to get your Congressperson's attention.

1). Write LETTERS. Anyone can zap off an email- especially one made by a political activist group. Take the time to WRITE, however, and you'll stand out in the crowd.

2). Donate MONEY. People who donate money get on the lists of mailings that tell what your congressperson is doing for your district. This gives you the information that allows you to keep tabs on him or her. Then, when they proudly announce that they are going to back something that you dislike, go back to step ONE- and WRITE A LETTER.

Darilian
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Matthew Kloth
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Darilian wrote:
Two simple ways to get your Congressperson's attention.

1). Write LETTERS. Anyone can zap off an email- especially one made by a political activist group. Take the time to WRITE, however, and you'll stand out in the crowd.

2). Donate MONEY. People who donate money get on the lists of mailings that tell what your congressperson is doing for your district. This gives you the information that allows you to keep tabs on him or her. Then, when they proudly announce that they are going to back something that you dislike, go back to step ONE- and WRITE A LETTER.

Darilian

I do love form letters and junk maillaugh
 
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Richard Hefferan
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Meerkat wrote:


[snark] Hey what are you talking about, HOLLYWOOD already made a video with stars vowing to reduce the amount of bottled water they drink and shop with reusable grocery bags. To help our new Pres know he is NOT alone! The world is already halfway to saved. [/snark]


Ok all snarking aside, the man hasn't even been in office for two weeks yet. I am willing to give him a least his 100 day honeymoon for him to start really pushing his supporters to do something on the ground. Just taking over day to day operations and learning the job has got to be hard.

As for his supporters, I believe a significant proportion of his younger fans will be inspired to get out and make a difference! Like JFK inspired in his time. But as the election fervor wains most won't. We live in a lazy ego-centric society for the most part.


Under a normal political movement, maybe. I still think it would be lame, but maybe. But this Obama fanaticism has been going on for years. The man was barely elected a senator and they were wispering about him being the next president. They mobilized millions to get out the message that he's such a wonderful guy and did everything but promise another golden age. I don't see it being difficult to take the next step, breaking it to his acolytes that change is the burden that they must accomplish. That change happens when they spend those hours on their community, instead of in hero worship.

If the man hadn't spent the last 18 months living and breating "change and hope" I wouldn't hold him to this standard. But given what has happened, I believe he has an obligation to get his followers into the mix putting in the hard effort that will bring us back to the forefront of the world.

If change is so crucial, then the man doesn't get a rest period. He needs to get people out in masses to aid our communities, and it needs to be better than slow.
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ExcitingJeff wrote:
Meerkat wrote:

Ok all snarking aside, the man hasn't even been in office for two weeks yet. I am willing to give him a least his 100 day honeymoon for him to start really pushing his supporters to do something on the ground. Just taking over day to day operations and learning the job has got to be hard.


Amen. We just got finished with 8 years of hard fucking. Let us enjoy our cigarette before kicking us out of bed.


Hey, that's not a very liberal thing to say. What about the second hand smoke your partner could die from? I say the next law to pass through congress should be "No smoking after sex" or there will be heavy fines because Obama's cronies will be watching through the bedroom window.
 
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MusedFable wrote:
I completely disagree with everything in that paragraph. I obviously don't know the "hardcore liberals" you know, but they wouldn't have downs syndrome would they? WTF is "real change"? Apparently "real change" doesn't include shutting down gitmo, passing a giant stimulus package, likely adding universal healthcare, and the piles of shit conservatives complain about.

I think Obama is a "real change" from Bush.


You sir are the poster child of a typical socialist liberal. Where do you think they get the money to support your universal healthcare and all this other bullshit you just spewed from you pathetic mouth. This is why the country is in the shape it is in.

BTW, I DO NOT agree with the Bush stimulus check, how he spent money in Iraq, nor will I support Obama with his worthless piece of junk stimulus package either. How does this stimulate the economy? Most people will just pay bills with it. That is NOT stimulating the economy and even if it did it would only be during the month that you received your tax return in - what about the other 11 months of the year?
 
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Have you ever considered, GAWD, that you and I are saying the same things?



'I' am free. Government, as such, is just a social organization to which we agree- or not.The difference between us is that I see government as tool, and you see it as an evil.

I don't think that tools, in and of themselves, are evil. They can be USED for ill, yes. But there is no tool that cannot be used for good as well as for ill.

But for Anarchy (or even poor lil old Democracy) to WORK, we have to be involved and be responsible for our actions. When we're not, the way is open for tyranny. And that is where I think we're more on the same page than not...

Darilian
 
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GAWD wrote:
We can no more "get involved" in the government than it itself and its corporate media lackeys allow us to be.


I can "get involved"; I spend a lot of money to influence public policy. But you probably think this is a bad rather than a good thing.
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jjloc wrote:
You sir are the poster child of a typical socialist liberal. Where do you think they get the money to support your universal healthcare and all this other bullshit you just spewed from you pathetic mouth. This is why the country is in the shape it is in.


Well, I'm convinced.

On the basis of this rational, civil post alone -- a poster child of rational, civil posts -- I conclude that Matt is a poor excuse for a human being and isn't fit to have an opinion of his own, because apparently all he spews is bullshit, and he has a pathetic mouth. I'm not entirely sure why a typical socialist liberal would have a pathetic mouth and not a purty one, but I figure that's for later bursts of wisdom.

This post has also convinced me that he is responsible for the entire securitized subprime meltdown, 30 years of job flight overseas, the gutting of the manufacturing base, and the widest gulf between rich and poor in the history of the republic. Dumb bastard. He's probably also responsible for paper cuts, solar flares, and rectal cancer.

Stupid Matt. Typical socialist liberal.
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Do you think it would be better if I did less? I'm honestly curious. I don't much like the system we have, but if the only people who support political candidates and groups are the ones who have some interest at stake and are looking to gain something, then those people have even more influence than if there is also a class of ideological donors like me, who want to advance a political agenda but at least don't want anything for themselves.
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GAWD wrote:
Another thing to consider, I suppose, is how easy the system makes it (as long as you have $$$ of course) to politically mobilize. To that end, directing your $$$ to endeavors outside the system that still advance your ideological/political agenda is more work, which you may not be able to put in.


This also raises the question of how to define the boundaries of "the system". By far the greater part of what I do is not in the form of donations to candidates for office or party committees, perhaps not out of any nobility on my part but simply because there are limits on how much you can give to candidates.

So that, right away, raises the question of whether donations outside of "the system" are a noble attempt to do the right thing, or a cynical attempt to circumvent limits on political contributions.

And, many of the groups you would probably support would probably be considered "fringe" groups. But does that mean you have to be a fringe group to be "outside" the system? How about this, for example: Thinking Big, Thinking Forward. These are people working within the system, not trying to blow it up, but I certainly wouldn't call them insiders (even if Jared Bernstein did get a job in the administration).
 
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GAWD wrote:


edit: If I remember correctly, Chomsky has quite a bit to say about some of the issues you're articulating. Maybe I can find the references later ...


You did NOT just say that you were going to quote Chomsky....?

Please, please do. *rubbing hands in manic delight*

Darilian
 
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