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Subject: reserve mode rss

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Alberto M.
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Dear all, I am going through my first game with OCS. I have a question regarding the reserve mode.
I can place a stack in reserve mode and them move it ¼ of its MA during the move phase. But can I split it, leaving slower unit under the original reserve mode marker and move other faster unit to another already placed reserve marker? i.e. move unit in reserve from a reserve marker to another?
The question is related to the number of reserve marker available, being limited, it can make a difference.
I would say that each stack moving must move with its mode marker, therefore if a stack with a reserve marker splits you need to use a reserve marker for each moving stack whether or not it reaches another stack in reserve mode. Correct?
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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Actually, that's not what he's asking: under 5.7 (4th edition), reserve units can move in the movement phase and remain in reserve (max 1/4 MA), as they are not released until the reaction or exploitation phases. They dont change to move or combat mode until released. (Edit unless they choose to leave reserve in the rule you stated)


The rules don't say if you can hop from reserve stack to reserve stack. Doesn't seem to be a very useful idea anyway. As long as all the reserve units end in a stack with a reserve marker, I suppose you could do it. As far as most units go, they will have only 1 or 2 available mp anyway while in reserve.
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Alberto M.
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yes that is what I ment.

You are right it may be a special situation but hoping from one reserve stack to another could be helpful in order to save precious reserve marker.

Imagine I place 2 reserve marker on 2 different stack.
stack A remain stationary, stack B splits. B1 moves, B2 hops to stack A and end the move under a reserve marker different from its starting reserve marker. Can B2 still be considered as in reserve mode?
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Darrell Pavitt
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As long as it doesn't exceed its' move allowance (x 1/4), iI don't see why not.

Here's an example of your question:

Stack A has 2 armour units, stack B is 2 hexes away and has an armoured car and 2 infantry units.

Both stacks have reserve markers.

Can the player move the armoured car from B to A as reserve movement (1/4 MA) and all the units involved still remain in reserve?
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Angela Sutton
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One of the good (or bad, I suppose, depending on your point of view) things about the Gamer's philosophy is that players have some latitude to work out rules questions in ways that seem reasonable to them.
My interpretation is that, if the units in question start and end a move under a reserve marker, and don't do anything that they couldn't do in reserve, it should be OK. If you are playing against an opponent, I'd clear it with him or her to be sure - but I'd guess your opponent would be amenable, as this option would be available to, and useful for, both sides.
If it seems more reasonable, however, to require an extra reserve marker for the short-term transit, one could just as easily build a case for that. Season to taste.
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Alberto M.
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nyhotep wrote:
As long as it doesn't exceed its' move allowance (x 1/4), iI don't see why not.

Here's an example of your question:

Stack A has 2 armour units, stack B is 2 hexes away and has an armoured car and 2 infantry units.

Both stacks have reserve markers.

Can the player move the armoured car from B to A as reserve movement (1/4 MA) and all the units involved still remain in reserve?


That is the point I was trying to understand. Honestly I would answer yes. But I could also answer that armour car moving from A to B needs its own reserve marker in order to be considered in reserve. From my point of view the rules allow or, better, do not forbid either, and I can explain both situations in a way that I can accept.
I was trying just to understand if there is a solution closer to the game philosophy.
 
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Alberto M.
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groggal wrote:
One of the good (or bad, I suppose, depending on your point of view) things about the Gamer's philosophy is that players have some latitude to work out rules questions in ways that seem reasonable to them.
My interpretation is that, if the units in question start and end a move under a reserve marker, and don't do anything that they couldn't do in reserve, it should be OK. If you are playing against an opponent, I'd clear it with him or her to be sure - but I'd guess your opponent would be amenable, as this option would be available to, and useful for, both sides.
If it seems more reasonable, however, to require an extra reserve marker for the short-term transit, one could just as easily build a case for that. Season to taste.


Completly agree with you. Please see my other reply.
When I play a game I like to understand the logic behind it and possibly relate it to historical behavior. In fact the question I posed is only a personal debate on how to interpret the rule.
I agree with you about the Gamers philosophy, I have to say that the more I get into their game the more I like them. And the reason is the rules and their philosophy.
 
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Angela Sutton
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Alberto,
OK, I'll take a crack at it. So to my mind the reserve marker identifies those units that are in RnR, operations prep, staffwork phase, etc., to enable them to either react to enemy moves or follow up an offensive success. The number of reserve markers then reflects logistic efficiency, doctrine, and command structure, and identifies a jump-off point from which 'special' activities can occur. If one is shifting units from stack to stack, those units are, in effect, changing their paper command structure as part of that staffwork process (represented very clearly with the similar leader / KG counters in DAK). What they are not doing is creating another logistical/training/command point by moving to their intended location. That is, they are remaining within a given operational and command structure, but redistributing the forces allocated to that structure.
In game terms, they will not use the benefits of reserve in the movement phase, and they are not multiplying the locations from which an emergency reaction or combat follow-up can occur. Also, since they would end their move still in reserve, they would continue to pay the cost of enemy action against them while in the reserve/prep stance - that is, they would continue to be at half-strength during the other player's active cycles (they can't be attacked in the middle of their move, so there is no benefit to them temporarily being without a marker). So I say the extra one is not needed.
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Alberto M.
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groggal wrote:
Alberto,
OK, I'll take a crack at it. So to my mind the reserve marker identifies those units that are in RnR, operations prep, staffwork phase, etc., to enable them to either react to enemy moves or follow up an offensive success. The number of reserve markers then reflects logistic efficiency, doctrine, and command structure, and identifies a jump-off point from which 'special' activities can occur. If one is shifting units from stack to stack, those units are, in effect, changing their paper command structure as part of that staffwork process (represented very clearly with the similar leader / KG counters in DAK). What they are not doing is creating another logistical/training/command point by moving to their intended location. That is, they are remaining within a given operational and command structure, but redistributing the forces allocated to that structure.
In game terms, they will not use the benefits of reserve in the movement phase, and they are not multiplying the locations from which an emergency reaction or combat follow-up can occur. Also, since they would end their move still in reserve, they would continue to pay the cost of enemy action against them while in the reserve/prep stance - that is, they would continue to be at half-strength during the other player's active cycles (they can't be attacked in the middle of their move, so there is no benefit to them temporarily being without a marker). So I say the extra one is not needed.

Thanks Angela, this clarify the situation.
 
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Jack Smith
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The designer himself is good at answering questions, he can be found here http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?50@494.D53megUpsbO.5@.ee6b4...

My take on it is that the marker must stay on any unit that moves as its mode is decided just before it moves and can't voluntarily be changed from that point. So if you have to cross one or more hexes to get to the other reserve stack then you need another marker, otherwise not.

There is nothing to stop you marking more than one unit in the stack with a marker to enable the split which may defeat whay your trying to do though.

Having said that I dont disgaree with other posters either:)
 
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John Kisner
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Jack,

Dean Essig has ruled that it is OK to enter Reserve Mode even if there is no marker available, if the unit will end up in an existing stack of Reserve Mode units after that 25% move. It would have been better to just say in the rules that the mode marker is placed at the end of the 25% move, but that'll have to wait for v5.
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