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Subject: Agricola vs. Tigris & Euphrates rss

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Josh P.
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I am trying to decide between buying Agricola or Tigris & Euphrates right now. I like the concept of Agricola because I like games like The Pillars of the Earth and Stone Age. However, Tigris & Euphrates is designed by Reiner Knizia, who made Lost Cities, Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation, Blue Moon, and Ingenious, which are all games I really enjoy for different reasons. I really don't know much else about Tigris, but the fact that it is a Knizia game really appeals to me. Not sure if this matters, but whichever game I get, it will most be played 2-players. So, which should I get?
 
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Agricola!!!!!!!
 
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Doc Bullseye
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Knizia made a lot of stinkers, too...

If you're only buying one, buy Agricola. It supports 1-5 players and has a lot of variety. Plus it sounds like you enjoy worker placement games.

I find that T&E only really shines with 4, but it's okay with 3.

(On the other hand, you probably should just buy both of them and get free shipping as a result...but you'll want more players for T&E.)
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Billy McBoatface
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Never tried Agricola, but I like T&E best with more people. If I were only playing two player, I would probably pass on it.
 
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Dave Eisen
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I would get T&E. I don't think this is a hard decision.

Agricola is a fine game, but there are many worker placement games where you build up an engine and turn it into victory points. Fine category of games, but you could live without Agricola in your collection.

But T&E. Brilliance. Unique. Feels like you're building up kingdoms in a wargame, and yet that's not really how you get points. Putting a plan into action and having to manage it even if you don't get the tile draw you want.

T&E is the reason Knizia stands at the very top of the game design pantheon. Yes, he's done many games and many are good. But they do tend to be good in the sense that they are mathematically interesting and well balanced. They can sometimes be less engaging than the games of other great designers. But T&E is a masterpiece.

As far as play with 2, I will come out and disagree with the others on the thread. T&E plays best with 2. The additional monuments that come out lead to a more aggressive and confrontationally interesting game and that is T&E at its best. Whereas I have only played Agricola with 2 a couple of times and found it very disappointing --- the zero sum nature of resource acquisition just did not work. It plays best when you are working to improve your position, but with 2 it is just as useful to take something you know the opponent needs and that just is not as fun for me here.

I like Agricola. I rate it a 9 here on BGG. But T&E is special. Get it.

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Patiently waiting for the zombie apocalypse...
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My vote is Tigris & Euphrates. It plays well with two, different, but good. Four is the best though.

T&E is full of player interaction and conflict. A lot of fun. Abstract, but a blast.

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J
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i vote for T&E

if you want an example of how it plays, check out this in-depth session report in 2 parts for a turn-by-turn analysis w/ commentary:

Part 1
Part 2
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Jorge Montero
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Apples, meet oranges.

Both are very good games, with the same basic weakness: The victory conditions are so narrow that there are few paths to victory.

I think T&E is a better game if you are going to pay it 50 times, if just because it has more flavorful tactics.
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Miguel
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T&E is a confrontational game. Agricola really isn't. If that matters to you, then your choice is easy.

Agricola is about building a fine tuned engine and getting points. T&E is about building your position, and capitalizing on opportunities before others can.

I really enjoy T&E with 2 and 4 players, less with 3. Agricola plays very similarly across the 1-5 player range, because it has little intentional interaction.

Personally, I DEFINITELY prefer T&E. Just be aware that at first it's a bit difficult to wrap your head around the strategy. After a few games, it becomes very simple, though (to play, not to win).
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Seth Brown
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I think Agricola's the better game (and certainly my preferred choice of the two), but it sounds like T&E may be something more unique for you.
 
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Guillaume G.
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I really love T&E and would prefer a game of it anytime compared with Agricola.
Now, as wmshub mentioned, I must say I'm not a great fan of the 2 players configuration: it seems like the outcome of the game is frequently set at half game. Those days, I would prefer a game of go if I had 1h30 free with 2 players (and hopefully a willing opponent ). Still, I could be caught playing T&E 2 players from time to time.

T&E, as tile placement, appeals more to the tactical side. It has also an excellent deduction / bluff element into it (guessing what your opponent has in hand). What really shines for me are the conflicts... They bring a lot of flavour to the game.
Agricola is a resource management game... I personnally find it less fun and exciting. Interaction is also lower than in T&E where you usually have to build your development upon others.
 
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Tony Chen
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I prefer T&E by far. Agricola is a typical worker placement game, and not a very good one at that (but then again I thought the same about Pillars of the Earth, which you like). T&E has something "special" to it, like many of Knizia's other games.

However, T&E is pretty stale with 2 players. I think it's best with 3, and decent with 4. If you want a good Knizia game for 2 players, consider Schotten Totten, Samurai, and Through the Desert. If you are going to be playing with 2, I'd go with Agricola.
 
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Josh P.
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Thanks for all the help, guys. I will probably eventually get both, but I think I will get Agricola first. However, I just found a copy of Goa for $25 on Amazon of all places, so I had to nab that first. Agricola will be my next purchase, though.
 
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Dave Eisen
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Goa is good too. One of the best 2 player games around.
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Aubrey Miles
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dkeisen wrote:
Goa is good too. One of the best 2 player games around.


So I've heard, but it's hard to find right now, whereas both Agricola and T&E are easier to find.

I honestly haven't gotten past reading the rules yet with my copy of T&E, and it looks fine, but Agricola's accessibility got it to my table the first day I had it. We've been playing it ever since. (note that this has been with my family, and that includes a ten year old)
 
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