Dan Fielding
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Clicked on a filename where the popup said "download now" and instead of downloading, it tried to open the pdf file in a tab in Safari.

Safari doesn't behanve well with pdfs, all I get is a black screen.
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Chris
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Yeah, some browsers still have PDF problems.

Do the old...

"right-click on file link, then save manually to your hard drive."
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Dan Fielding
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That's irrelevent. The popup says clicking will DOWNLOAD but instead causes the file to be DISPLAYED in the browser. Its a bug that can be fixed by simply correcting the popup message.
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Chris
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The PDF file is being 'downloaded' regardless of how you view the file afterwards (displayed in your browser or displayed directly from your hard drive). This is not a bug; the text cue is correct.

Consider changing your browser settings. A web search will turn up various methods. This is the kind of thing you have to deal with then you use a less common browser.

I use a less common browser as well - dealing with it is half the fun!
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Dan Fielding
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Your semantic parsing is wrong. Download means it resides on your hard drive in a permanent file.
 
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Gronak wrote:
Download means it resides on your hard drive in a permanent file.


To "download" is to transfer data. You might save it to disk, you might not. What language would you suggest?
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Dan Fielding
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The common usage for "download" is to save the data. Displaying in the browser is transient, unless you do something to save it. You shouldn't need a CS degree to parse the meaning.
 
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Ken
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Except that what any individual browser does when "downloading" is defined by that browser. So, in the case of Safari, when you click on "Download" it's behavior is to transfer the file to your hard drive, then attempt to display it in a browser window rather than just saving it or opening the original application.

Unlike other browsers, Safari doesn't appear to have preferences that let you define how to handle files of different application types. For PDF files, it will automatically attempt to display them. For other files (like Excel) it might ask you what you'd like to do with it.

So you're blaming BGG for something that's related to your choice of browser and has nothing to do with the site. If you'd like to save a copy of a PDF, then you'll either have to right click and "save as" or hit the "Save" button on the PDF that shows up in your browser window.

But this has literally nothing to do with BGG and they couldn't fix it if they wanted to. Request the ability to control how different content is handled from Apple in a future version of Safari.
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Dan Fielding
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I still maintain that if browsers differ in their handling of a clickable link, "download" is misleading.
 
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Ken
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No particular offense intended, but your understanding of "download" is the issue, not the name of the link. Every time you hit a web page you download that content to your computer. "Downloading" the file means "I want to get this." That you interpret that to mean "this must be open up a file save dialog box" isn't something anyone can really fix.
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Dan Fielding
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>That you interpret that to mean "this must be open up a file save dialog box" isn't something anyone can really fix.

No, it means that the file simply downloads to the hard drive without any more actions by the user.

>Every time you hit a web page you download that content to your computer.

Technically yea, it meets the definition in RFC 1578. But only people with CS degrees think of it that broadly. The ordinary person "opens" browser pages in a transient manner, and "downloads" files to his hard drive for permanent saving. The popup isn't needed by the geeks; it is supposed help the ordinary lUSER.
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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Some BGG files are HTML, and all browsers will automatically display those instead of saving them to disk. Safari is just more capable than most in this respect because PDF is built into Mac OS X. As to wanting the file on disk, you can:

• Option-click the link to save the file.
• Right-click or control-click the link and select "Download Linked File" or "Download Linked File As…"
• Click the link, then select "Save As…" from the file menu.
 
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Meng Tan
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Gronak, let's say your definition of download is correct (it's not, but let's just assume it is for now). What wording would you suggest instead? At least if you make a concrete suggestion, the admins can accept or reject it.

Would it be something along the lines of:
"Download (if using Internet Explorer) or view in new tab (if using Safari) or who knows the hell what it does if you're using Firefox, it depends on your preference settings"
 
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Dan Fielding
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Just don't have a popup at all, if it cannot universally correctly describe what is going to happen.

Some links on the Geek take you to the page where the downloadable link resides. Seems to depend on what sort of page you are on (Files on a game's named page, browsing files, search results page... )

If I knew _which_ would occur, I could hit the correct keys to do what I want.

And since the upgrade, some links don't work, even though they appear to contain the same URL as a working link accessed via another starting point...
 
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Ryan Powers
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Gronak wrote:
Just don't have a popup at all, if it cannot universally correctly describe what is going to happen.


You're just plain wrong this time. The fact that I can change my browser settings to handle a file type different ways has nothing to do with BGG, and therefore isn't a BGG issue, it's a browser issue.

It's a website.There's tons of stuff you can't universally determine because the client end is configurable and plays a role. Welcome to the internet. If the fact that you could configure it to do something different were sufficient cause to not do something in then first place, it would be a completely useless place as just about everything is changeable on the client end if you really want i to be.

If being able to universally determine what is going to happen on the client end was a concrete requirement you'd lose:

-Images (after all, these could be turned of on the client end, how are we to know)
-Links in general (even just to other html pages) (for starters open in same window/new window/new tab/etc)
-How about text itself (you can only design around so many font type/size choices on the client end before their choices goob your formatting decisions)

So, now that we've eliminated everything that we can't use, because a client may handle it differently we're pretty much left with a blank page. How exciting.
 
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Dan Fielding
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reductio ad absurdum
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Ryan Powers
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Gronak wrote:
reductio ad absurdum



Surprisingly, it's nowhere near bad as you think actually. I've seen suggestions about being required to strictly control every one of those things from clients. Beyond the levels of control that are actually possible. I've never had a single one ask to leave all there out, but I have each of those be asked to be done differently in order to provide more control.

For example, taking the most basic one of my 3, text: I've had a client request images of the text instead of text. Not just logo type stuff, or fancy text or anything, but fairly straightforward stuff entire paragraphs as images.

(Note: Being asked to do this != doing this. I've never actually replaced paragraphs of text with pictures. I'm not even saying it would be impossible to come up with circumstances where doing so would make sense, this was not one.)

But hey, you continue to redefine download to mean something it doesn't and see how far it gets you.

Hint: a common download dialog is along the lines of:

You have started to download a file, would you like to open it or save it?

Your inability to face the fact that the word doesn't mean what you think it does is just that, a problem with your definition.

Downloading = downloading. Saving = saving. Opening = opening. Now there are interactions between these three. It would be hard to save or open a file not downloaded, and opening likely involves saving it somewhere even if only temporarily, but they are distinct terms, at least two of which you are incorrectly equating.

EDIT: I seem to be having a keyboard issue, sorry for the multiple edits.
 
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Chris
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This is my favorite thread so far this year and not likely to be surpassed through the remainder of 2009.

Thank you!
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