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Subject: What Deck combinations finish game with 3 decks gone? rss

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Mike Linford
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I have played Dominion about 20 times and have never ended a game by depleteing 3 decks only by the province cards being depleted. I would like to know if anyone knows of deck combinations that helps you finish the game with depleting 3 decks?
 
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Martin G
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How many players? It's less likely to end with deck depletion if you're playing with two. Gardens tend to disappear rapdily, as do curses, so having either of those around makes it more likely.
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Mike Linford
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qwertymartin wrote:
How many players? It's less likely to end with deck depletion if you're playing with two. Gardens tend to disappear rapdily, as do curses, so having either of those around makes it more likely.


I usually play with 3 players.
 
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Robert M
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# of players and everyone's strategy.

I think I've had a game with the basic set end with 3 decks running out once.
 
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Mitch Willis
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qwertymartin wrote:
How many players? It's less likely to end with deck depletion if you're playing with two. Gardens tend to disappear rapdily, as do curses, so having either of those around makes it more likely.


I agree with Martin. In games where there are Gardens and/or Witches, our games usually end with 3 empty piles...and another card that'll tend to make 3 empty piles more common in our games is the Thief...
 
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David F
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Ditto with more players, as people picking the same strategy depletes a deck really quickly.

Cards like Village, Laboratory, Festival (popular, work in bunches and good with a lot of strategies), Cellar & Moat (cheap) tend to deplete.

If Witch shows up with no Chapel, Moat or Remodel, Curses will definitely deplete.
 
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Mike Linford
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otha62 wrote:
qwertymartin wrote:
How many players? It's less likely to end with deck depletion if you're playing with two. Gardens tend to disappear rapdily, as do curses, so having either of those around makes it more likely.


I agree with Martin. In games where there are Gardens and/or Witches, our games usually end with 3 empty piles...and another card that'll tend to make 3 empty piles more common in our games is the Thief...


Does having 2 vs 4 players make a big difference? and if you play with more than 4 players does that make a difference?
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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ferdman1969 wrote:
otha62 wrote:
qwertymartin wrote:
How many players? It's less likely to end with deck depletion if you're playing with two. Gardens tend to disappear rapdily, as do curses, so having either of those around makes it more likely.


I agree with Martin. In games where there are Gardens and/or Witches, our games usually end with 3 empty piles...and another card that'll tend to make 3 empty piles more common in our games is the Thief...


Does having 2 vs 4 players make a big difference? and if you play with more than 4 players does that make a difference?


At the moment, the game maxes out at 4 players. That will change with the release of the first expansion, Intrigue.

:ucks to avoid exploding thread::

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Joseph DiMuro
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How about this set:

Bureaucrat
Chancellor
Feast
Gardens
Militia
Spy
Thief
Witch
Woodcutter
Workshop

No cards which multiply actions (though the Spy gives you a single extra action).

No cards which help improve the deck (like the Chapel, Remodel, and Mine).

Not many cards which help get more coins into your hand.

Kingdom cards which provide money are there (like the Militia), but you won't be able to play more than one per turn.

No Moat, so no way to block attacks.

We have the Militia, which knocks your opponents down to 3 cards.

The Spy/Thief combo is here, which means players can repeatedly steal coins from each other.

The Witches will clog decks with Curses.

The tempting Workshop/Gardens combo is here, which will clog decks even more.

Those Provinces are going nowhere. I'm sure 3 decks will be depleted.
 
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Andrew Snyder
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selwyth wrote:
Ditto with more players, as people picking the same strategy depletes a deck really quickly.

Cards like Village, Laboratory, Festival (popular, work in bunches and good with a lot of strategies), Cellar & Moat (cheap) tend to deplete.

If Witch shows up with no Chapel, Moat or Remodel, Curses will definitely deplete.

I can't tell from what you've written, but you might be playing the trash wrong. When you trash a card it does not go back in its own pile, so only the moat can keep the depletion of curses in check.

edit for clairity
 
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Tom Chappelear
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My last game had 4 players, a witch, no 3-cost action cards, and every 5-6 cost card in the game. I think only two provinces were bought total before three piles ran out.
 
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Ben Lott
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My one play of the game was 2-player. Because I loaded up on Gardens early, I tried to pack my deck as full of cards as much as possible, and tried to end the game early. I don't think a single province card was purchased before the end of the game.
 
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David Fair
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See this post, and really, the rest of that thread...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2999704#2999704
 
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Kevin Cachia
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I would say it also happens more frequency in games where money is hard to come by, and it is difficult to hone your deck.

So, games with no Moneylender, Chapel, Mine, Remodel -- no way to get rid of those Coppers and Estates, and also where it is rather difficult to get to 8 cash in a hand -- games where you cannot explode extra actions with Villages, Festivals, and for that matter, Throne Rooms.

In other words, any setup where it is most difficult to buy Provinces is a setup where I think folks might a couple of piles getting depleted or nearly depleted before Provinces are getting purchased, and decide to buy a couple of Duchies and try to end the game by emptying piles.

Well, it's certainly something I've tried on occasion.

Kevin
 
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Mark McEvoy
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ferdman1969 wrote:
Does having 2 vs 4 players make a big difference?


In a 2 player game, there are 8 provinces, so 4 provinces per person.

In a 3 player game there are 12 provinces, thus also 4 provinces per person.

In a 4 player game, there are 12 provinces, but thus only 3 provinces per person.


So, all else being equal, the province pile will deplete after each player has had a lower number of turns in 4P than it will in 2p and 3p (between 2p and 3p it should be close to the same number of turns before province pile deplection.)


Of course, non-VP piles have a lower cards-per-player ratio too, but as no one of them is so crucial and no one of them single-handedly defines an end condition, it seems to have little effect - 4p games will almost always end on the exhaustion of Provinces.
 
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Walt
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Most recently:
1. A Witch race to give everyone curses.
2. A remodel race to remodel the curses.
3. And then, realizing I was ahead, I took the last of another action card (Market?)
 
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Mark McEvoy
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Shouldn't the curses and witches both have run out?
 
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Peter O
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thatmarkguy wrote:

Of course, non-VP piles have a lower cards-per-player ratio too, but as no one of them is so crucial and no one of them single-handedly defines an end condition, it seems to have little effect - 4p games will almost always end on the exhaustion of Provinces.


I would disagree. Certain card setups make certain cards MUCH more valuable, meaning they are more likely to be depleted. A recent four player game I was in ended with a 4-3-0-0 win for me. There was remodel, village, throne, but no chapel so turbo remodel was the order of the day. The villages disappeared almost immediately, the moats went quick and I won in a 3 remodel turn remodeling the last two remodels off the pile and then remodeling a village into a duchy (with an estate still remaining in my deck). Turbo remodel games are relatively rare, but workshop/garden games aren't and that strategy depletes resources VERY quickly. Festivals, labs, villages, moats (in some games), cellars and markets are all commonly depleted piles and in the right game someone can cap a quick win with running them out.

Basically, any game where it is advantageous to have 3 or more of any 2 specific cards makes the game possible to end on card depletion. The third pile can usually be run out by someone looking to do so early. Of course, 3 or more specific cards means the game is likely to run out. Effective witches present means one less pile is needed as the curses almost always run out while making decks inefficient and therefore slower to buy provinces and more likely to buy action cards.
 
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Greg Jones
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thatmarkguy wrote:
ferdman1969 wrote:
Does having 2 vs 4 players make a big difference?


In a 2 player game, there are 8 provinces, so 4 provinces per person.

In a 3 player game there are 12 provinces, thus also 4 provinces per person.

In a 4 player game, there are 12 provinces, but thus only 3 provinces per person.


So, all else being equal, the province pile will deplete after each player has had a lower number of turns in 4P than it will in 2p and 3p (between 2p and 3p it should be close to the same number of turns before province pile deplection.)


Of course, non-VP piles have a lower cards-per-player ratio too, but as no one of them is so crucial and no one of them single-handedly defines an end condition, it seems to have little effect - 4p games will almost always end on the exhaustion of Provinces.


I have the totally opposite experience. The number non-VP cards-per-player ratio has a huge effect. The difference is much greater. The difference between Provinces per player is only 25%. The difference between regular cards per player is 50% (5 vs. 2.5).

If one action card is in high demand, it can run out really quickly. In the 2-player game, it's not often that there's really any action card you need five of in your deck. Running out the stacks is more likely an intentional tactic. I think I've been in 4-player games, even without Gardens or Witches, that ended early even though most of the players didn't intend it to. They just ran out a couple piles building up their decks and almost ran out a third. You can win these by seeing it coming and buying up a couple Duchies. Then you buy out the last couple in the third stack. The other players have really powerful decks that would totally win if the game wasn't already over.

Probably this is bad play. Those players shouldn't even let it get close to three stacks running out before at least having a plan to get some VPs. So it might happen less with good players.
 
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If I get a setup with Workshop and Gardens I will often try to buy only Workshops, Gardens, and Estates trying to end the game early.

See this thread for more info: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/379096
 
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David desJardins
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tranenturm wrote:
A recent four player game I was in ended with a 4-3-0-0 win for me. There was remodel, village, throne, but no chapel so turbo remodel was the order of the day. The villages disappeared almost immediately, the moats went quick and I won in a 3 remodel turn remodeling the last two remodels off the pile and then remodeling a village into a duchy (with an estate still remaining in my deck).


I don't know exactly what "turbo remodel" is supposed to be, but any of the players who paid more attention to the situation could have scored way more than 4 points before this happened, right? It seems the epitome of bad play.
 
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Kevin Cachia
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Andrew Snyder wrote:
selwyth wrote:
Ditto with more players, as people picking the same strategy depletes a deck really quickly.

Cards like Village, Laboratory, Festival (popular, work in bunches and good with a lot of strategies), Cellar & Moat (cheap) tend to deplete.

If Witch shows up with no Chapel, Moat or Remodel, Curses will definitely deplete.

I can't tell from what you've written, but you might be playing the trash wrong. When you trash a card it does not go back in its own pile, so only the moat can keep the depletion of curses in check.


I think the point is that people are less likely to buy and play Witch when the other players can play Moat to stop the curses, or can play Remodel or Chapel to rid themselves of the curses. The Witch becomes a less effective deck-clogger with these other cards in play.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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DaviddesJ wrote:
tranenturm wrote:
A recent four player game I was in ended with a 4-3-0-0 win for me. There was remodel, village, throne, but no chapel so turbo remodel was the order of the day. The villages disappeared almost immediately, the moats went quick and I won in a 3 remodel turn remodeling the last two remodels off the pile and then remodeling a village into a duchy (with an estate still remaining in my deck).


I don't know exactly what "turbo remodel" is supposed to be


I thought I did know what Turbo Remodel was supposed to be... but it, by definition, included a Chapel. Chapel your deck down to a Remodel and a Throne Room (and 3 other cards, one of which is a Chapel but doesn't remain one for long), then do two Remodels a turn until you have 3 provinces, then you burn two provinces a turn (throne room, remodel province into province x2) until game ends and your 18 points is still tops.

I believe ideal play (if your Chapel and Remodel come in different hands, turn 3 and 4) is:

Turns 1,2: Chapel, Remodel
Turns 3,4: Chapel away 4 of the 10 start cards, Remodel an Estate into a Throne Room.
Rest of game: Chapel out Coppers (And one Estate), remodel Estate->Remodel->Gold->Province->Province when you can.
 
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Paul Doherty
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rmartinc wrote:
# of players and everyone's strategy.

I think I've had a game with the basic set end with 3 decks running out once.


Does this imply there should have been more Province cards? Presumably the ending conditions should happen roughly equally often?
 
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Paul Doherty
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TrojH wrote:
How about this set:

Bureaucrat
Chancellor
Feast
Gardens
Militia
Spy
Thief
Witch
Woodcutter
Workshop

No cards which multiply actions (though the Spy gives you a single extra action).

No cards which help improve the deck (like the Chapel, Remodel, and Mine).

Not many cards which help get more coins into your hand.

Kingdom cards which provide money are there (like the Militia), but you won't be able to play more than one per turn.

No Moat, so no way to block attacks.

We have the Militia, which knocks your opponents down to 3 cards.

The Spy/Thief combo is here, which means players can repeatedly steal coins from each other.

The Witches will clog decks with Curses.

The tempting Workshop/Gardens combo is here, which will clog decks even more.

Those Provinces are going nowhere. I'm sure 3 decks will be depleted.


Hehe I like it! I'm going to try this setup and see how it goes...
 
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