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Star Wars: The Queen's Gambit» Forums » General

Subject: Isn't the palace pointless? rss

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Per Sylvan
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I just can't seem to understand the point of playing *any* card in the palace, until the Jedi/Sith battle is complete?

I'd rather play Jedi/Sith Cards, Anakin/Starftr Cards, or Battlefield Cards (in that priority, I think).

The palace, however, seems like a total waste?

Am I right, or what have I missed?
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Carl Forhan
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What you're missing is that it's very easy for the TF player to eliminate the palace guards and hero figures if they sit unprotected. Very often a smart move for Naboo is to move some figures into the throne room and block the door -- this really slows down the TF elimination of Naboo pieces.

I just played this game a few weeks ago with my son, and my Jedi defeated Darth Maul quite easily (both Jedi survived with minimal injuries). I figured I had the game wrapped up. However, before I could make the Jedi useful in the palace, my son eliminated all my Naboo palace pieces, and thus I lost, because you need at least three pieces (two Jedi plus one other) in the throne room to win. My mistake was that I did nothing to protect my Naboo pieces, thinking the Jedi could handle it once they defeated Maul.
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Per Sylvan
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So you would say that it actually is a viable strat to kill of all those Naboo pieces in the Palace? I thought it impossible due to the sheer number of them?
 
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Matthew M
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Perry wrote:
So you would say that it actually is a viable strat to kill of all those Naboo pieces in the Palace? I thought it impossible due to the sheer number of them?


Killing them is the ONLY way the Trade Federation wins. It had better be viable!

Further, the Naboo Alliance can make it MUCH more difficult to kill the necessary number of people in the palace if they can manage to get into the throne room and barricade the door with the high-health figure. So positional play in the palace is important almost immediately. How much you balance that with the Jedi battle is one of the strategic questions that you face early in the game.

-MMM
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Rauli Kettunen
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Palace Guards are pushovers, since they don't roll any defense die. Hard part is getting your Battle Droids hit them . Destroyer Droids should target the 3 name characters, Panaka & 2 Queens. At least the way I usually roll, 1-2 shots from a DD leaves them hanging to life by a thread. DDs are also pretty much your only hope of taking down a Jedi if one or more hit the Palace after killing Maul (though have to say that more often it's Maul hitting the Palace for us). Once you get the Naboo down to say 2 of the name char (regardless of the Jedi situation) and with a few wounds on them and less than 10 PGs, it gets nervous (well, for me at least).
 
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Per Sylvan
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I see how this game will grow upon me.
To mentally balance all the sub-games, and spending the right amount of resources (cards) at the right time at the right place, will be a challenge. Nice !

BUT, I'd say that the Throne Room looks rather indefensible, from the TF perspective? The Window Ledge cards exist in plenty - and the TF has only 1 DD on 3rd floor -> and that will be targeted immediately with the 1st Window Ledge Card played ..

What's the strat here as TF? Quickly try to pull up a 3rd (or even a 4th???) DD on third floor? Or what?
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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IIRC, TF starts with 2 DDs on the top, 1 on both middle and ground. Depending on how quickly the Naboo start using Window Ledge, the middle floor DD might get "rolled" (the card that allows 8 move for 2 DDs) toward the ground floor. Blocking windows is a valid option to reduce the numbers Naboo can get to the top. 1 move 4 BDs can reduce the number of open windows to 2 in the lobby of the throne room. Throne Room windows are harder to block, but your BDs block the access at the ground floor to begin with.
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Indeed it is a very good strategy.

Blocking all the windows on the middle floor with droids will force the naboo to take the long route. It gives them a few choices:
- Doing so once in a while
- Going all out on naboo guards
- Wait till one or more jedi are ready to assist

Either way is great since it has several downsides the trade federation can exploit.

This game is a gem. Altough it is sometimes very lucky because of dice, with many games I have found it very well balanced and forces you to make choices you later may regret. And it is very fun.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Arontje wrote:
Blocking all the windows on the middle floor with droids will force the naboo to take the long route.


Not sure what you mean by this. It's been mentioned in the Rules section (here on BGG) that blocking a window on the middle floor doesn't stop Naboo pieces from going from ground to top floor (or vice versa, in case of retreat from Maul).
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Dam the Man wrote:
Arontje wrote:
Blocking all the windows on the middle floor with droids will force the naboo to take the long route.


Not sure what you mean by this. It's been mentioned in the Rules section (here on BGG) that blocking a window on the middle floor doesn't stop Naboo pieces from going from ground to top floor (or vice versa, in case of retreat from Maul).


Lol, thats how we always played it. I will look into the rules questions on these forums to see what everyone says about it.

If it is indeed true (and I must say it sounds right), then my points still stand altough it is a lot more difficult to block it all.
 
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Chris
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A strategy I like to use as Naboo is to focus entirely on the palace early game. The first floor has the least amount of baddies. Sometimes I focus on completely clearing the first floor of opposition and just sit and wait for Anakin to take care of business. From there I can just blast the droids bit by bit as they come down the stairs or move in from the palace. It's not exactly a rush to play the jedi duel cards. Whether I play all my duel cards on my third turn or play one or two cards per turn as soon as I get them, it's still the same amount of hits Maul is taking.
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Per Sylvan
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Lots of good suggestions here
It'll be great to try everything out.

- Blocking 3rd floor windows with TF; sounds like a great idea
- Shooting away baddies on 1st floor with Naboo; sound a bit risky - what if Darth Maul wins the J/S battle? But maybe that is very uncommon, so it ain't even an issue?
 
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Brandon Pennington
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I have always felt the opposite in that I feel the Battlefield is pretty pointless other than for gaining bonus cards.
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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TGov wrote:
I have always felt the opposite in that I feel the Battlefield is pretty pointless other than for gaining bonus cards.


And gaining bonus cards can in turn be incredibly useful. As TF I (sometimes) like to take the tactic of spamming Darth Maul cards, and if I have none playing battlefield cards in the hopes of getting Darth Maul bonus cards. Otherwise those bonus cards let me kill soldiers.
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Rauli Kettunen
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TGov wrote:
I have always felt the opposite in that I feel the Battlefield is pretty pointless other than for gaining bonus cards.


You call killing Gungans pointless?! You sir are talking crazy !

(of course, if you're the Naboo player, then, umm, yeah )
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Chris
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TGov wrote:
I have always felt the opposite in that I feel the Battlefield is pretty pointless other than for gaining bonus cards.


I'd happily invest cards in the battlefield to draw more Anakin cards while my opponent never gets more than 4 actions per round.



 
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Rob Flowers

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I had a game end in what felt like only three turns (maybe it was more like 5), where as the Federation I had a lot of good palace cards, played those to mow down guards, drew and played the "discard your whole hand" card, filled up with more palace cards, and eliminated the entire Palace force before the Jedi/Sith battle was even close to being decided.

Granted, this was a freak occurance, but it should underscore that protecting those Palace Guards (or at least some of them) is very important.

Commenting on another part of this thread, I used to think that moving droids to block 3rd story windows was good, too, but I've since changed my mind. I'd rather get the shots in on guards on the first floor while I can. If I have to execute a droid card, and I have nothing to shoot at, only then will I go block some windows.
 
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Robert Stetler
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Dam the Man wrote:
IIRC, TF starts with 2 DDs on the top, 1 on both middle and ground. Depending on how quickly the Naboo start using Window Ledge, the middle floor DD might get "rolled" (the card that allows 8 move for 2 DDs) toward the ground floor. Blocking windows is a valid option to reduce the numbers Naboo can get to the top.


As has been pointed out, window movement can be from any floor to any floor. As a result, the middle floor is often bypassed. If the Naboo player moves real fast with window movement, they can sometimes go straight into the throne room before the Federation can block all the window access points. A destroyer droid deployed to pre-emptively secure the throne room door can work wonders to keeping a Naboo bottleneck from happening before you have time to pull in more droids to secure it, and doesn't redirect too much effort if the Naboo player doesn't go that route.

TGov wrote:
I have always felt the opposite in that I feel the Battlefield is pretty pointless other than for gaining bonus cards.


For the Trade Federation, the battlefield is essential. Due to their force advantage, it becomes the card engine that drives the palace and Jedi fight. Remember those bonus cards are *added* to what is played for the turn, resulting in often opponent unanswered actions. For the Trade Federation, a battlefield card usually results in *at least* one bonus card, while for the Naboo player it is rarely even a one for one trade off (to see how this is so, consider the number of units per space for each side - in terms of casualties that can be taken and dice rolled, the number of spaces activated per card, and the types of dice rolled per unit). The Trade Federation will never draw enough palace cards to do what they want, and can't afford to only play their normally allowed number per turn - bonus actions are essential.

Darth Headbutt wrote:
A strategy I like to use as Naboo is to focus entirely on the palace early game. (snip) Sometimes I focus on completely clearing the first floor of opposition. (snip) It's not exactly a rush to play the jedi duel cards.


I strongly disagree. As a Trade Federation player, I will be playing Darth Maul cards as quickly and often as I can get them, and will be forcing almost every bonus card into the palace (often adding more Darth Maul). Take your time with Jedi retaliation, and you won't have any Jedi left. The Anakin clock is ticking down and it can at best be slowed - its going to happen, and when it does it doesn't matter how many droids lived or died. When that time runs out the Trade Federation's chances are much improved if they're the only ones with a Jedi left. Which will be what happens if the Naboo player neglects or even delays the reactor fight. If instead the Naboo player puts more focus on the reactor fight, they'll probably win it - but then that will be fewer palace cards mowing down droids, giving the Trade Federation a fighting chance of mowing down palace guards the hard way. Clearing the first floor doesn't mean things are all rosy given battlefield and double-move cards can get droids back in the fray, more so if a Sith Lord makes an entrance to the palace because the Jedi bought the farm. As a Naboo player, take care of business where it counts - put Darth Maul in his place at the bottom of the reactor shaft.

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Rauli Kettunen
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KGBRadioMoskow wrote:
while for the Naboo player it is rarely even a one for one trade off (to see how this is so, consider the number of units per space for each side - in terms of casualties that can be taken and dice rolled, the number of spaces activated per card, and the types of dice rolled per unit).


The activate 2 Catapults card(s) can easily earn you 2 bonus cards for 1 used. Not many other I don't think, unless you've already whittled down the BD formation by a few droids here, few there. IIRC, there are also cards to activate 2 Kaadu Groups, those might net you 2 bonus as well.
 
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Dam the Man wrote:
The activate 2 Catapults card(s) can easily earn you 2 bonus cards for 1 used. Not many other I don't think, unless you've already whittled down the BD formation by a few droids here, few there. IIRC, there are also cards to activate 2 Kaadu Groups, those might net you 2 bonus as well.


The 2 catapult cards (3 in deck, IIRC) require some solid luck to score 2 bonus cards. They roll a total of 4 dice each, 3 red and 1 grey. The average on that works out to 3 hits per catapult - while 4 (heck, even 7) hits are possible, the chances of that are about a coin flip (bit less). Pulling 4 hits twice (one per catapult) is definitely asking for some special luck. Anything less than 4 hits will only clear a wounded unit or (with not unreasonable luck) a destroyer droid pair. Tanks take 4 hits, a full battle droid group takes 4 hits - less than that, no bonus card. So I'd hardly call those odds "easy".

A Kaadu Rider group is only 2 units, rolling 1 red die each. You've got a 1 in 36 chance of scoring 4 hits with one of those - and you've have to do it *twice* to gain 2 cards. Those are some really long odds. IIRC there are also just 3 such of those cards.

The one Naboo card that has a real solid chance of a 2 for 1 payoff is the Force card, and there is only one of those.

On the other hand the Trade Federation only needs to score 3 hits to clear a Gungan group, and as little as 2 for a Kaadu group (although hardly to be expected, 2 blue dice isn't a bad defense). Any of the 2 tank cards (3 IIRC) is virtually guaranteed of that (4 red and 2 grey dice each, average of 4 1/3 hits). The 2 destroyer droid cards (don't remember how many, guessing 3) also have great odds (4 red dice each, average 3 1/3 hits). The 3 battle droid cards are a dicier chance (4 grey dice each, average 2 hits each, but requiring 1 lucky 3 hit sweep and a 2 on 1 gang up to clear 2 Gungan groups), but the chances are still about as good as the catapult example (and far better than a Kaadu group's chances).

Granted the 1 battle group cards are fairly jank, with long odds to even get a 1 for 1 payoff. But its better chances than corresponding 1 Gungan group card, which has absolutely no chance to clear its corresponding battle droid group opposition.

In a nutshell, as the Naboo player when you pull one of the 4 or so hail Mary battlefield cards, by all means use them. Odds are you'll at least get what you paid (and as a bonus card, even 1 for 1 is not a bad thing), and you'll probably have a chance sometime where there isn't anything better to do in the palace or reactor. But otherwise the Naboo player isn't going to be doing much on the battlefield except getting mowed over, unless they're intent on flushing their game chances on a battlefield deck that rarely even pays off 1 card for 1.

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Rauli Kettunen
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KGBRadioMoskow wrote:
The 2 catapult cards (3 in deck, IIRC) require some solid luck to score 2 bonus cards. They roll a total of 4 dice each, 3 red and 1 grey. The average on that works out to 3 hits per catapult - while 4 (heck, even 7) hits are possible, the chances of that are about a coin flip (bit less). Pulling 4 hits twice (one per catapult) is definitely asking for some special luck. Anything less than 4 hits will only clear a wounded unit or (with not unreasonable luck) a destroyer droid pair. Tanks take 4 hits, a full battle droid group takes 4 hits - less than that, no bonus card. So I'd hardly call those odds "easy".


Weird, my Catapults regularly roll insanely well, while the Tanks barely get 2 hits for 6 dice !

Quote:
A Kaadu Rider group is only 2 units, rolling 1 red die each. You've got a 1 in 36 chance of scoring 4 hits with one of those - and you've have to do it *twice* to gain 2 cards. Those are some really long odds. IIRC there are also just 3 such of those cards.


I'm talking mainly about taking out the immediate thread, DDs. 2 Red vs 4 Blue work for me (more on Blue later).

Quote:
The one Naboo card that has a real solid chance of a 2 for 1 payoff is the Force card, and there is only one of those.


Forgot about that.

Quote:
and as little as 2 for a Kaadu group (although hardly to be expected, 2 blue dice isn't a bad defense).


It's a horrible defense, though better than nothing. Even getting 1 hit on 2 Blue is a drag (weirdly, doesn't seem to be when DDs in the Palace are defending). Incidentally, also the reason why the name chars in the palace tend to get wounds so fast, 1 Blue vs generally 2 Red. Even BDs will sometimes take shots at the name chars and get wounds regularly (if they hit that is). Incidentally, I think Blue and Gold have the name amount of faces showing shields, with the Gold just having 1 face with 2 shields, but Maul generally rolls better for defense with Gold + Green than Jedis do with Blue + Green. That 2 Shield face seems to come up quite often.
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Rauli Kettunen
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Darn you people with your talk of this game! I couldn't refuse any longer, just had to get this to the floor for a game ! Turned out to be the most flip-flop game ever!

1st turn sees Maul assert his authority, 1 attack against Qui-Gon deals 5 damage.

3rd turn sees both Naboo Queens die under heavy DD onslaught.

Still, after 20 minutes, Anakin is 1 move away from the Control Ship, with game looking like it'll go to the Naboo.

Qui-Gon is at 7 wounds and another Maul attack finishes him off (so that's Qui-Gon dead in 3 attacks). Obi has taken a riposte hit earlier and then in the space of 2 Maul attacks goes from 1 wound to 10 wounds, dies on the next attack (so Obi dead in 3 attacks as well). Maul arrives in the Palace with 7 wounds.

Fast forward to the game at 45 minutes, Anakin is still 1 move away from the Control Ship (failed about 4-5 tries), all Naboo has left in the Palace are 6 PGs on the 1st floor. 5 minutes later, Trade Federation wins.
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Stephen Schaefer
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I've made it a point to protect from Window Ledge Movement as early as possible, because if the Naboo player is left free to bum rush the palace, you can get way behind that battle very early. Blocking the "front" third floor windows takes only a couple moves (one if you draw a rush card early) and it slows the guards down enough that you can pay more attention to the other battlefields while forcing the guards to slog through at least one floor of droids.
 
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magic gecko
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I agree with the Opening Post of Per Sylvan.
The Jedi/Sith battle decides the game, in 90%+ of games.
Shooting Captain Panaka or the True Queen gets you a random palace card . . .



Tgov said "I have always felt the opposite in that I feel the Battlefield is pretty pointless other than for gaining bonus cards."

I agree.
The battlefield is about getting more Palace cards to go through.
Which is also pretty pointless until Jedi cards turn up.
 
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Luke O'Hearn
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Another good palace tactic is to take the bottom floor. Kill everything down there, guard the stairs with your main characters, and fill the battlefield entry hexes with guards. Now the TF player must either win the Jedi Battle or fight your characters one at a time from the middle level.

The Jedi Battle is important, but not urgent. If it takes you (for example) 12 Jedi cards accumulated over several rounds to win that battle, Those might as well have been the last 12 cards you played. In the meantime, you should be playing cards that have a more immediate effect, rendering your opponents plays less efficient. A good example is killing a Queen or Panaka. Now one third of the Naboo's Theed cards are lacking one red die for the rest of the game.
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