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Subject: Miniature Games to Boardgames? rss

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CHAPEL
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You ever find yourself wishing that some contemporary miniature games were ported to a board game(without actual mini's)?

Yes, this may sound silly to some. But I look a a game like Warhammer 40K, and think. I kind of wish they would take away all the plastic, and table top board, and just give me a board and chits and give us all the story.

Something along the lines of the DoW "Small World". You could make the whole game to fit within a box with boards, and high quality "chits".

This would bring down the footprint, the costs, and the plastic. It just doesn't do that much for myself painting mini's and fiddling with all that.

I doubt GW would think of such an endeavor with their bread and butter franchise. I'm sure the AT crowd would turn over in their grave at such a suggestion, but it's something I was thinking about tonight.




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Stefan Daniels
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Your Move Games has kinda done this with Battleground. I've never played the game but it certainly looks kind of like what you're talking about.
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I always wanted to see a grand boardgame that combined Mechwarrior (CMG) with Battletech (CCG). Maybe done in the strategic style of Starcraft with battle breakouts played ala Conflict of Heroes.
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Godspeed the Punchline
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Federation Commander: Klingon Border has rules for miniatures, but can be played just as well with chits and whatnot-- the miniatures can be played freeform or on a map.
 
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Walt Mulder wrote:
I always wanted to see a grand boardgame that combined Mechwarrior (CMG) with Battletech (CCG). Maybe done in the strategic style of Starcraft with battle breakouts played ala Conflict of Heroes.


You mean other than The Succession Wars, which we had quite a bit of fun with back in the day. An updated version of this would be nice. A 40K grand strategic game would also be sweet!
 
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Keith Anderson
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A boxed version of DBA would be tempting. At 12 counters per army, a good selection of armies could come with the game. Of course, then the expansion armies would follow...
 
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John Bobek
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Replace a miniatures game with a boardgame? Replace the toys, the eye candy with flat oounters and cards? I think not!




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Kent Reuber
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There was a deal with Decision Games to make a boardgame out of the Lost Battles: Reconstructing the Great Clashes of the Ancient World miniatures rules. Sadly, it didn't see the light of day. Perhaps there isn't as much demand for this as we would like:

Phil Sabin wrote:
I just heard from Chris Cummins regarding the pledge drive. It did quite well, but not surprisingly (given the combination of such a short timescale with the worst recession in living memory), it did not reach the 500 pre-orders required. Hence, it is unlikely that a boardgame upgrade will be published after all.
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CHAPEL
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Wargamer204 wrote:
Replace a miniatures game with a boardgame? Replace the toys, the eye candy with flat oounters and cards? I think not!


Hey I hear you. For people who like all that, I certainly can see the appeal. But it does nothing for me, and I would never see myself getting into that world. But the game itself and the theme I would.
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John Bobek
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Quote:
Hey I hear you. For people who like all that, I certainly can see the appeal. But it does nothing for me, and I would never see myself getting into that world. But the game itself and the theme I would.

Actually, I'm seriously thinking of applying my game system for miniature games to some of the board wargames I've recently bought. The combat should be no less fast and the results more realistic. If I actually get around to typing it up, I'll post it somewhere for playtesting. The problem in having so many different boardgames is that there's a learning curve with most of them that's intimidating. My system works very well with miniatures and applies with minor changes to nearly everything, so why not a boardgame with counters?
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There's not much game there. Most minis games are a foregone conclusion a half an hour in and there are very few interesting decisions.

Minis games are just tactile porn.
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John Bobek
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Quote:
There's not much game there. Most minis games are a foregone conclusion a half an hour in and there are very few interesting decisions.

Minis games are just tactile porn.


What miniatures games have you been playing? The last six years I taught history, my classes fought the battle of Chickamauga in 2mm scale, boys vs. girls. Three years the boys (rebels) won. Three years the girls (Yanks) won. One game eerily played out just like the actual battle. The other times were decided by differences in strategy, the luck playing out about equally.

I ran the naval evacuation of Crete campaign twice recently. Ironically, the Italian commanders in both games proved to be too cautious. That alone let the British off the hook.

Nearly every game I run goes down to the wire (since I usually have a time limit of about 4 hours, it has happened several times were there was no victor.). OK, the Alamo was pretty much a foregone conclusion. But, it's the exception, not the rule. And I don't make any great effort to balance out the sides.

A half hour into my games and there's usually no decision in sight!goo
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Isaac Citrom
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Chap makes a good point.

Firstly, with respect to eye candy, todays' counters are not yesterday's monochromatic counters. I like just fine the counters that come with Conlict of Heroes, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, minis are not counters and the two don't scratch the same itch.


What I can hardly wait for is do-it-yourself mini cutting machines along the lines of the Cricut and the Wishblade. Just design what you want on your PC, and the machine will cut it out. Easy as printing. Perfect for counters and many types of other gaming parts. However, they are currently very limited in how deep they will cut. Even manual diecut presses can't cut through much more than thick paper. But, I am hoping that in short order this will change.

There are also machines that will chisel solid objects. There are a variety of ways of doing this. These machines are getting smaller and cheaper all the time.

Now imagine the copyright violation debates we'll have here on BGG when you can reproduce a game physically (counters, bits, printed matter) just by hitting "print".
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In the early 90s, GW did a few old school chit wargames, like Battle for Armageddon, Horus Heresy and Doom of the Eldar. A a couple of these (maybe only Armageddon?) were available as free downloads from GW a few years ago, but aren´t at the moment...

Interestingly, Battle for Armageddon ushered in the age of special characters for Warhammer 40K, as this game featured Commissar Yarick and Ork Warlord Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka, who were both soon turned into miniatures, and Blood Angels commander Dante who followed them a few years later.

 
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Thom Hall
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Aren't you essentially asking for what Richard Borg did with the commands and colors napoleonics miniatures rules? Or, not even blocks, you want chits?
 
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Matthew Kloth
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This is one of the holes in game design I am trying to fill.

There is a big vacuum between Neuroshima Hex!/Battle Lore, and Warhammer/Hero Clix. Hex and counter wargames kinda fill that role, but they cater to simulation and history; while I'd prefer awesome fictional themes and gameplay being the priority.
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Thibault Bloch
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This concept has already been executed. See Frontiers: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29078
I haven't played it yet, but it is relatively well ranked here and on the main french boardgaming website (TricTrac).
YC Games keeps releasing free downloadable content (new army, new terrain, etc.).
See http://www.yc-games.fr/
English: http://www.yc-games.fr/spip.php?rubrique58

They are planning a WW2 game based on the same concept, called "Pour les Braves". I just love the preview artwork
http://www.yc-games.fr/spip.php?article117
http://www.yc-games.fr/spip.php?article122

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Club Squirrel
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meeple I like my eye candy...



I guess it depends which games you mean. The whole point of them is the miniatures. Personally I can't paint a fence let alone miniatures, hence I buy pre-painted ones.

Miniature games fill their niche, and you don't have to collect the lot to play the games. It's only when you collect them all they become expensive - Star Wars CMG completist here. blush

Personally, if it was a choice between cardboard counters and cool looking pre-painted miniatures I would go with the miniatures unless either the card counter game was very good (original Talisman) or the miniature game totally sucked (Star Wars Starship Battles).

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I really wished they made a boardgame out of Warhammer 40K, because I like the theme and atmosphere of the game. Heck, I even like the eye-candy, but it is far to cumbersome with all that plastic. I am interested in the tactical game play and have no desire to first painting up all those miniatures. That is why I like playing Warhammer 40K on the computer, but I would really like to see this as a boardgame.

Best of all (but I know this is too much to ask for) it would be converted to a hex-and-counter format... and then I woke up.

 
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Mike Burns
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I absolutely know where you're coming from, mr. Chapel, although I would prefer games on the grand strategic scale (such as Succession Wars). I would love something like this based on the Warmachine or the Confrontation universe!
 
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Jakob Schneider
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Describing yourself?
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Paul
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MWChapel wrote:
Wargamer204 wrote:
Replace a miniatures game with a boardgame? Replace the toys, the eye candy with flat oounters and cards? I think not!


Hey I hear you. For people who like all that, I certainly can see the appeal. But it does nothing for me, and I would never see myself getting into that world. But the game itself and the theme I would.



A big issue with Warhammer and WH40K is that if you take the tactile and craft elements out of the equation it leaves only a ropey game system. Most existing boardgamers and wargamers wouldnt be interested in actually playing the 40K system itself I think. If 40K was directly tranferred to chits on a hex map, the game isnt good enough to stand up.

I played 40K for nearly 20 years and I got into it from the miniature painting side of it. The game was secondary in some respects early on: if it allowed me to use the miniatures that I had painted in a game environment to a reasonably satisfactory level then I was happy enough.
As time went on I got more and more disillusioned with 40K and moved more into boardgames, although preferably boardgames with with miniatures (Doom, Descent, Last Night on Earth, Mutant Chronicles: Siege of the Citadel, Space Hulk etc). These work better for me as the games themselves are far, far better to play, while still giving me a creative "fix" in terms of achievable and varied goals for painting, customising and the like.

The 40K theme and background is great however. I would love to get some more decent 40K boardgames. I just dont want them to be direct "ports" of the existing Warhammer systems, simply because they are weak systems. A 40K equivalent of Memoir 44 would be just about perfect for me I think. I would be very happy to purchase Memoir 40K Tyranid or Tau or Blood Angel expansions or whatever.




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War for Edaðh fits your description except it uses cards instead of chits. Check out their website www.warriorelite.com for all the story you could want!
 
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Richard Would
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Cheetor, if only they would just write the 40K rules properly. I mean, true line of sight in a game where terrain is not the same scale as the miniatures? Brought in because one of the games designers saw eight year old kids playing it wrong in a store?
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Jasper Mangus
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Theoretically you could just play 40k with a bunch of cardboard chits, but that wouldn't be quite as entertaining.

Though I do agree there needs to be more strategic level stuff for games like 40k.

Also cgecOkko: Era of the Asagiri is basically a skirmish game sans minis (cardboard standouts) played on a grid.
 
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