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War of 1812» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lake Control? rss

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Christopher Taylor
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Lake Forest
California
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In the version 3.0 rules, where is the definition of lake control?

Thanks!
 
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Robert Derderian
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Troy
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You need to have a ship in the lake...not a port. As all battles are to the death (or can retreat) only 1 side will have ships in the lake and thus have control.
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Roger Masters
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Well that doesn't make any sense because the rules state that ships must be in a lakeside town during the winter phase or they'll be lost, and VP's are calculated during this winter phase. SO, you can't exactly have lake control with a ship in the middle. My idea was that lake control means there are no enemy ships in any of the lakeside towns.
 
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Shayne Richards
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Read section 8.0 particularly the note on section 8.1

The victory check comes BEFORE the winter turn (or to be precise as the first step of the winter turn). You do the tenth turn and then check for victory, if no one has the required points then you play the winter turn.
 
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Shayne Richards
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And your handle is wiseguy? Lol
 
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Roger Masters
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Shaynerichards72 wrote:
And your handle is wiseguy? Lol


Listen her, Shayne Richards, if that is your real name, lol...

So I think we both misread the rules; I later discovered that if your ship is in the lake during the winter phase, it'll be destroyed IF it has no friendly lakeside town to make berth at (I think that's the correct expression, make berth? I'm Army, not Navy...).

SO, the rule book doesn't quite say what lake control is, but I imagine it means having your ship in the lake at turn 10, and being able to "berth" it during the winter phase.
 
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Shayne Richards
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Well it's clear that lake control is determined before the winter phase, but yes you do need to port it to keep your boat. During the game you can control a lake and not have any friendly ports so control is not reliant on having a port, it's just about keeping your boat in winter and if you can't then like during the game, the lake reverts to neutral.

I presume from the way the rules read that control is current during the game and at the victory check. If after the victory conditions are not met, during the wintering move phase if you cannot dock your boat then it is lost. So technically there is nothing to say you need to keep it in winter, because if you win the game at the end of turn 10, there is no winter turn.

You only play winter IF nobody has won, so no you don't need to be able to dock your boat as the winter turn never happens.

Remeber that during the game if you move your boat from the lake to a port then the lake reverts back to neutral. So technically during winter all lakes are neutral, hence why the victory check before winter.
 
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Shayne Richards
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No the rule book doesnt clearly state what lake control is but those who are familiar with CG from their later releases will have a better understanding of what constitutes control. It does talk about it attacking and defending in various parts, and if you are in a lake then you are defending it, and in all CG games this is control.

You need a boat out on the lake. As soon as you move it to port the lake is neutral. Hence the victory check BEFORE you make the wintering move of docking the boats.

So no, I didn't misread the rule book lol. But it's an interesting point, that I may email Tom and Grant at CG to consider a clear definition in future rules updates.

But basically a lake is neutral. If someone puts a ship into it then they control it as they are defending it and can use it for amphibious moves, where the other person has no control over it.
 
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Roger Masters
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Well, it would appear I've been bested! cry

No worries, though, I appreciate the input. And as long as we're talking about rule-book modifications, how about the creators clarify another thing: if a defender chooses to retreat before rolling any dice, and the attacker gets pursuit fire, DO the attacker and defender reveal their pieces? (I'm assuming they don't, seeing in how most of this game is played on the Honor System, with rolling for forced marches and militia enter Canada). I mean, with the forced marches and militia-invasion, does your opponent have to know what you're doing?
 
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Shayne Richards
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I am pretty sure there is something in Quebec about this as it has decoy units in it. I think from memory no, but will check. I am pretty certain there is this question raised on the Columbia games website forum. If you havent looked at their forum you should it's very good for clarifications etc.

Looking at the rules though, its only saying that blocks are revealed if they accept battle.
 
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