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Subject: GameStorm 2009 Math Trade - Discussion Thread rss

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rgatti wrote:
themilkcrate wrote:
I updated it when I got home lsat night from the longest Age of Steam game of all time (and enough fillers to recuperate from it).
That was only the second longest game of Age of Steam we played. shake

I thought we were supposed to reduce game length as we played things more frequently . . .?
Sounds like I missed some fun. I was busy cleaning up in anticipation of guests. Would love to get some Age of Steam in with you folks sometime.
 
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This is my first math trade and I read through the guides, but I have an "etiquette" question, for lack of a better term.

When I'm choosing games from OLWLG that I want, is it fine to "check all" if I don't really care what I trade for what? My items have a range of value, but I don't really care if the values are equitable in my favor. Or, do I need to go through and try to match the values of the games I want with what I want to trade?

What are the pros or cons of checking all of my items for each of my wants?
 
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You never know what you will get. Sometimes you will trade a small item for a larger one.

Yes, "check all" is perfectly fine.

Just make sure that you will be absolutely thrilled if you get that particular trade. Or else don't make it.

Don't "check all" if you have larger items you are trading. You don't want to trade Tide of Iron for a copy of Cube Farm.
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crunk_posby wrote:
This is my first math trade and I read through the guides, but I have an "etiquette" question, for lack of a better term.

When I'm choosing games from OLWLG that I want, is it fine to "check all" if I don't really care what I trade for what? My items have a range of value, but I don't really care if the values are equitable in my favor. Or, do I need to go through and try to match the values of the games I want with what I want to trade?

What are the pros or cons of checking all of my items for each of my wants?
The negative: I personally wouldn't want to do that. The math trade tool tries to maximize the number of trades. Your willingness to accept anything for your games means that everyone else gets their more selective trades and then you get yours, because they are incremental on top of everyone elses. There are some games in the trade that I value and others that I feel are just another 150 cubic inches of wasted space. What I have found is that when I make a list of games that I'd be willing to trade for, the most desirable games are generally a trade up, and other people may be willing to offer more desirable games for them. If a game ends up trading for something else it's usually on the middle or lower end of my wish list. For example if your game is worth $15, and you say that you would be willing to trade for any of the games that would be valued $50 - $3, you probably will end up trading your game for one valued $3-$5.

The positive: You will pretty much be guaranteed a new pile of games to look at, and as long as at least one person wants each of your games they are pretty much guaranteed to trade. If you really value the item at close to $0.00, it may be worth checking every box and see what comes out.

Your milage may vary. My advice on your first math trade would be to echo what Andrew said, and what I was advised by others, "Be conservative, only make trades that you will be happy with, and for games that you really want." I don't want you to end up feeling like you got the short end of the stick. Please talk to your friends that have done math trades and see what advice they give.

Looking at what you've posted, you've got a several games that others would value quite a bit. You've got others that may just appeal to 1 or 2 people. Maybe you could bundle some of the card games together into a bundle and try for something more valuable. If you do that add them to one entry, but please don't delete the other entries. Just put a null item, and submit a blank list for those items.
 
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crunk_posby wrote:
This is my first math trade and I read through the guides, but I have an "etiquette" question, for lack of a better term.

When I'm choosing games from OLWLG that I want, is it fine to "check all" if I don't really care what I trade for what? My items have a range of value, but I don't really care if the values are equitable in my favor. Or, do I need to go through and try to match the values of the games I want with what I want to trade?

What are the pros or cons of checking all of my items for each of my wants?
If you have already selected the list of all games you might want and you REALLY are certain that you don't care if your most valuable item trades for your least wanted item (this is generally the case in math trades), then it is perfectly fine to check all.

Based on your "etiquette" question, I assume what you're really asking is, "Is it okay (in terms of etiquette) for my least valuable item to have all of the items I want (including those that are significantly more valuable) on its want list?" And the simple answer to that is: Absolutely. There is no problem if you are trying to "trade up" (even by accident or convenience). "Trading down" is simply a matter of verifying that you will be happy with getting any of the items on your want list for the item you are trading.

Just be certain that you will be happy with any of the exchanges you list as wants (paying closest attention to the least valuable/desirable wants, as these are the ones you are most likely to receive if an item trades.)..
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Thank you for your help! That will help me relax a bit, and help me make some better choices about my trades. Also, it was a good suggestion to combine some of my items...

So I combined a few things and posted edits in the appropriate spots, but I'm not sure how to "null" the entry officially.

Thanks again! I'm looking forward to my first Gamestorm and Math Trade!
 
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Just remove all text, and say "null" entry, make it a blank game as well. That should be fine.
 
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David Thompson
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Here's what I would prefer (with a rationale in parenthesis):

1) Edit the item and change the game name to "Outside the Scope of BGG".

2) Change the text of the description to read: "Game removed. Combined with item ###. (that way people can find the new place that you put the game and see if they are interested in the package).

3) Add the following altname tag to the item +altname+ Game Removed -altname- (this tag is read by the OLWLG and shows up as the title of the game instead of "Outside the Scope of BGG").

If anyone needs to remove a game for another reason (it traded, your kid sat on it, etc.) they can follow step one through three and change the text to indicate that the game is no longer available.

I will do a check before running the trade to make sure that nobody has a deleted item on their want list. It's really important to do step one, since that is how I will check to see if it's been removed.

Of course, you can always submit a blank want list if a game becomes unavailable between the close of the list and the close of submissions. That way your unavailable item has no chance of accidentally trading.

crunk_posby wrote:
Thank you for your help! That will help me relax a bit, and help me make some better choices about my trades. Also, it was a good suggestion to combine some of my items...

So I combined a few things and posted edits in the appropriate spots, but I'm not sure how to "null" the entry officially.

Thanks again! I'm looking forward to my first Gamestorm and Math Trade!
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Thank you for the information. I just tried step 1, but it won't let me post without a game name ("Board Game # is not in our database"). And when I type in "null" three actual games come up for me to pick from.

I currently have changed it to "outside the scope of BGG" but will change it (and my other entries) if you let me know what I can type in for the name.
 
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'Outside the scope' should work fine.

If you're using that for a game entry, you can also take the text that Andrew pointed out and add

+altname+ Game Removed -altname-

to the message body, and it should show up that way as the game title.
 
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Thank you, I was able to make the changes.
 
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Qtinuum wrote:
Don't address a whole group in hopes of reforming the behavior of a few people (bad apples) within that group. If you see a "bad apple" approach him/her and explain that what they are doing is not acceptable within the social situation, period.
Always a good philosophy and practice. Do not punish the many for the transgressions of the few.

Based on my experience at the pre-convention, bringing a sack lunch sandwich plus granola bar or apple into the gaming rooms will not be allowed.

I will have to bring food, as the vegetarian options are few and far between, I will not have a car, and I am not staying at the hotel. I guess I'll have to eat outside and hope for good weather in the park.

I know from personal experience that it can be difficult to find a hotel to host a convention, and the people running the convention often run into rules they didn't expect or didn't anticipate to be a problem. That said, there are other hotels. I have nothing but respect for the people running GameStorm. I do request that they consider this issue in hotel selection in the future, and will send a separate note to them about the issue.
 
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TheCat wrote:

Based on my experience at the pre-convention, bringing a sack lunch sandwich plus granola bar or apple into the gaming rooms will not be allowed.

I will have to bring food, as the vegetarian options are few and far between, I will not have a car, and I am not staying at the hotel. I guess I'll have to eat outside and hope for good weather in the park.
I believe there will still be a hospitality suite this year (not sure what the vegetarian offering will be other than veggie platters), but all the food/drink will have to be consumed inside the suite (or in your hotel room) due to the 'no outside food' rule in the hotel common areas. As an alternative to eating outside at the park, you may want to inquire with whoever is in charge of the hospitality suite about bringing your lunch to eat at the suite if the weather is terrible outside.
 
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jgeske wrote:
TheCat wrote:

Based on my experience at the pre-convention, bringing a sack lunch sandwich plus granola bar or apple into the gaming rooms will not be allowed.

I will have to bring food, as the vegetarian options are few and far between, I will not have a car, and I am not staying at the hotel. I guess I'll have to eat outside and hope for good weather in the park.
I believe there will still be a hospitality suite this year (not sure what the vegetarian offering will be other than veggie platters), but all the food/drink will have to be consumed inside the suite (or in your hotel room) due to the 'no outside food' rule in the hotel common areas. As an alternative to eating outside at the park, you may want to inquire with whoever is in charge of the hospitality suite about bringing your lunch to eat at the suite if the weather is terrible outside.
This "hospitality suite" you speak of . . . what is it? I never found it last year (but that might have been because I was vigilantly guarding whatever table space I was able to claim and constantly scouting for new territory in case the table I had was converted into miniature terrain, claimed for a scheduled game, or happened to be the size and dimension of a park bench.).
 
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rgatti wrote:

This "hospitality suite" you speak of . . . what is it? I never found it last year (but that might have been because I was vigilantly guarding whatever table space I was able to claim and constantly scouting for new territory in case the table I had was converted into miniature terrain, claimed for a scheduled game, or happened to be the size and dimension of a park bench.).
With the layout at last year's venue, if you had gone directly to the convention center (a separate building) and never went in to the hotel looking for vending machine, you would not have seen the tons of signs posted in the hotel hallway leading to the hospitality suite. I followed the signs out of curiosity and found a 2-room suite at the end of one hallway that is stocked with food/drinks - veggies, fruits, cold cuts, sandwiches, candies, chips, cookies, ice cream bars, and even frozen dinner that you can heat up in the microwave, plus assortment of soft drinks and bottle water. All the food items are free with a suggested donation amount. I also recall that after a certain time in the evening, they show movies in the living room for people who want to take a break from gaming.

I will try to find out how they plan to sign the hospitality location this year given that the hotel space is much larger and people are less likely to find the suite by just walking around.
 
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I don't know how this affects planning for a meeting time for swapping math trade games, but there was an announcement that there will be a swap meet Saturday from 4-6 PM. Personally I'd stick with the time that David has suggested, and seems to be a good fit, 12PM on Saturday.

text from message below:
------------------------

For the first time this year, Game Storm is running a swap meet. On Saturday evening, from 4-6 PM, you can bring your used games to Heritage B and see what other people are looking to trade. Please no new games; nothing in shrink-wrap will be allowed. To reserve table space, sign up for the event at then got to the My Schedule page and make a note to that effect on the event.
 
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It seems that the Swap Meet is more like a Flea Market with no new games allowed (because there will be dealers on site selling new games).
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What's up with the SwapFu math trade for GameStorm?
 
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I think the 'flea market/swap meet' is a fantabulous idea.
 
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There are now 3 swap/trade events that I am aware of at GameStorm.

1) this math trade, which has a swap time of noon on Saturday;

2) the GameStorm Swap Meet, a first time event for those interested in swapping used games is running on Saturday from 4-6 pm;

3) the creators of SwapFu (a website-based trading program designed to take some of the mystery out of math trading) are running a math trade as well. This is a separate site that does not use BGG or the OLWLG to run its trades, but is based on the SwapFu website. Their GameStorm trade is the first that they've attempted on a large scale. SwapFu has a trade time scheduled for 9 pm on Saturday.

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I'm going to extend the submission deadline for the trade until 9am on Thursday morning to accommodate any traders involved in the current national math trade. I'm guessing this won't inconvenience anyone, since there are four days to submit want lists. Feel free to GeekMail me if you have a concern.
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themilkcrate wrote:
There are now 3 swap/trade events that I am aware of at GameStorm.

1) this math trade, which has a swap time of noon on Saturday;

2) the GameStorm Swap Meet, a first time event for those interested in swapping used games is running on Saturday from 4-6 pm;

3) the creators of SwapFu (a website-based trading program designed to take some of the mystery out of math trading) are running a math trade as well. This is a separate site that does not use BGG or the OLWLG to run its trades, but is based on the SwapFu website. Their GameStorm trade is the first that they've attempted on a large scale. SwapFu has a trade time scheduled for 9 pm on Saturday.
Work and kids have kept me a bit buried - this is the first I've heard of Swapfu? Who runs it?
 
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artfuldodge2 wrote:
themilkcrate wrote:
There are now 3 swap/trade events that I am aware of at GameStorm.

1) this math trade, which has a swap time of noon on Saturday;

2) the GameStorm Swap Meet, a first time event for those interested in swapping used games is running on Saturday from 4-6 pm;

3) the creators of SwapFu (a website-based trading program designed to take some of the mystery out of math trading) are running a math trade as well. This is a separate site that does not use BGG or the OLWLG to run its trades, but is based on the SwapFu website. Their GameStorm trade is the first that they've attempted on a large scale. SwapFu has a trade time scheduled for 9 pm on Saturday.
Work and kids have kept me a bit buried - this is the first I've heard of Swapfu? Who runs it?
Based on the website, I'd guess: John Watson and Jonathan Hager
(I don't know who they are)

As far as I can tell, there are a total of 4 items from 2 people in their trad (but details are sketchy and hard to come by).

My impression was that they were putting a lot more mystery and complications into a game-based math trade (but that the site might be more geared toward non-game trades?).
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rgatti wrote:


Based on the website, I'd guess: John Watson and Jonathan Hager
(I don't know who they are)

As far as I can tell, there are a total of 4 items from 2 people in their trad (but details are sketchy and hard to come by).

My impression was that they were putting a lot more mystery and complications into a game-based math trade (but that the site might be more geared toward non-game trades?).
From the website:
Quote:
Why not just use a geeklist and geekmail?

We love boardgamegeek, but found the process to submit a MathTrade cumbersome and error prone. We wanted to make the trading platform available to a wider audience. The result is that you can put a short description and condition of your game (or other item) and indicate what you would be willing to take for it.
If you click on the 'help' link you can get a little more info, but not much. No indications of what process will be used to actually find trades.
 
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subhan wrote:
rgatti wrote:


Based on the website, I'd guess: John Watson and Jonathan Hager
(I don't know who they are)

As far as I can tell, there are a total of 4 items from 2 people in their trad (but details are sketchy and hard to come by).

My impression was that they were putting a lot more mystery and complications into a game-based math trade (but that the site might be more geared toward non-game trades?).
From the website:
Quote:
Why not just use a geeklist and geekmail?

We love boardgamegeek, but found the process to submit a MathTrade cumbersome and error prone. We wanted to make the trading platform available to a wider audience. The result is that you can put a short description and condition of your game (or other item) and indicate what you would be willing to take for it.
If you click on the 'help' link you can get a little more info, but not much. No indications of what process will be used to actually find trades.
Does anyone know if they've actually participated in a local no shipping math trade? I can understand their point-of-view if they've only observed national math trades, or if they truly have a non-BGG target audience in mind, but based on their website, they seemed well-versed in legalese and their items are no more (and typically less) descriptive than what we have here.

I'd guess the true intention is a for-profit venture using local trades as a foundation (albeit, a very small foundation, so far).
 
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