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Pursuit of Glory» Forums » Rules

Subject: Ru VP count silliness rss

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Tom Slizewski
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I’m really enjoying PuG, it seems a worthy successor to PoG - nice job. I’m concerned though that certain rules calls are going to affect PuGs long-term replay value (certainly for me).

The point that I think now needs careful thinking about is the Russian VP total. Allowing the Russians to gain RU VP by capturing AP victory spaces that the Turks captured is a bad idea I think. If I understand the current ruling correctly any VP space (or region) that was ever neutral or Turk owned (even just by a tribe) becomes Russian if the Russians convert it from CP or neutral to AP. This would include Romanian spaces, Persian Regions and even British spaces in Arabistan.

Allowing this makes for some very gamey tactics and historically ridiculous play. The Brits are encouraged not to garrison their VP spaces in Arabistan or the Persian regions in an attempt to bait the Turks to take them so the Russians can retake them. I can see granting them to the Russians if they can trace a contiguous line back to Russia (they've been annexed), but giving the Russians victory spaces separated from their country is silly. Arabistan is a good example. Under the current rules the best defense for the Brits is to leave all the VP spaces empty. If the Turks take them they won’t be able to hold them and once the Brits eliminate the defenders an Ru unit moves through and captures them for Russia. The best defense being no defense! The Russians can end up owning VP spaces surrounded by Brit owned territory and that Britain started the war with. It’s terribly silly.

Please let me know if I’m understanding the current rules correctly or if I’m missing something. Having Russian cavalry sitting in Fao just waiting to claim VP spaces the Brits cleared is irking me.
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Philip Thomas
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Interesting issue. Bearing in mind the changes to Warm-Water Port requiring a continuous chain of Russian spaces between the port space and Petrovsk, perhaps a similar requirement for Russian VP space conversion is appropriate.

It wouldn't totally fix the problem though. The Russians could still establish a contiuous chain through Arabistan, if the Turks were lured into conquering it. What this means is the Turkish player should avoid capturing Arabistan (unless the capture would win the game).

Perhaps a radical fix is needed: A rule could be added that (in addition to continuous chain requirement) Arabistan spaces can never become Russian VP spaces (because it was a British sphere of influence).

Of course, all this is just me speculating off the top of my head. The current rules have not changed!
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Tom Slizewski
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The easiest and most realistic fix for this is that spaces/regions that change sides go back to the original owner with neutrals being owned the first nation that captured it. So if Ru got to the Persian spaces first and Brits help take one back the Russians get it. If Russians are operating in Arabistan and Meso, Brit VP spaces go back to Britain. I wouldn't be opposed to an "unless a supply line of RU spaces can be traced back to a Ru supply source." Given the chance I'm sure the Russians would have grabbed some border territory if they thought they could get away with it.

As currently ruled, the historical antagonism and competition between the Russians and Brits is not represented. The two are like twin brothers and Britain will gladly give up its victory spaces to keep Russia in the game longer.
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Brad Stock
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I actually agree with Tom. The idea of Russians capturing BR VP spaces and NOT being connected by land to Russia had simply not occured to me. I am used to seeing Russians advancing a front, not racing behind British lines. So, yes, I agree that is too gamey for my taste.

So, yes, I will rule that one of these proposed solutions is correct. Will ponder. Tom's fix is the easiest, but I do suspect that the Russians would have grabbed something if they could get the front lines there.

Which do you guys think is better for game play?
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Tom Slizewski
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I would like to see VP spaces go back to original owner unless the liberating unit has a line of continuously controlled spaces back to a friendly supply source at time of capture.

In game terms this could only happen in an expanding front situation. In Romania it could only happen if the CP had knocked out the Romanian defenders, taken VP spaces and then the Ru captured them during a counterattack.
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james zajicek
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I agree with Tom....even though it sounds like my favorite stupid
AP trick of entering Athens with the RU 2/4special seems to have
seen its last days...

But i want to make sure of one thing then.....under Tom's proposal

If the Turks capture Urmia (an original VP in Russia but not a RU VP)
..and then the Russian eventually take it back does that then count as
a RU VP ?
 
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Petr Houzar
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Quote:
If the Turks capture Urmia (an original VP in Russia but not a RU VP)
..and then the Russian eventually take it back does that then count as
a RU VP ?


Rules, 16.4.2 in italics: Remember, VP spaces in Azerbaijan are RU VP spaces and count against the RU VP total if under CP control.
The RU VP Marker is adjusted one space back when Turks capture it and then forward when Russians liberate it.
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james zajicek
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henderson
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thanks...needed that..
 
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