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Subject: Tanks and some questions rss

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Dave Fletcher
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Sandiway
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I've just played Normandy mission 6 and a couple of situations arose with regard to tanks that I couldn't find a specific answer to.

First situation, an assault team uncovers a 75mm IG, which opens up, placing a H VOF. Later, a tank moves onto the same card as the assault team. A literal reading of 7.5.B suggests that I first resolve the H VOF on the tank, then the 75 gets a Reaction Fire shot at the tank. This seems a little harsh, allowing the gun two shots before the tank fires, so I suspect only one shot was intended.

A more interesting situation occurs when a second tank enters the LOS of the gun, but on a different card. In this case does the gun get Reaction Fire, if so what happens to its H VOF on the infantry ? And if another tank showed up, would the gun get another Reaction Fire shot ?

Finally, how do you deal with a sniper attacking a tank?

Thanks to anyone who help with these queries.






 
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Matt R
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Dave,
You've done more with the game at this point and I don't have *anything* to suggest to you how to handle these situations, so I'm interested in finding out too.

Sorry I had absolutely nothing constructive to add to this thread
 
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Steve
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Yep, I'd love to hear these answers too as I'm in the middle of mission 6. It's not going to stop my game but it would help to know.

 
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Dave Fletcher
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After some thought I think the easiest way to play these situations is to treat the VOF and Reaction fire independantly. So in the first situation the tank gets a H VOF against it as well as Reaction fire from the 75mm.

In the second case, the gun continues with its H VOF on the infantry, but gets to make a Reaction shot at the tank. If this were not the case, then it would be fairly easy to sneak up on AT guns by distracting them with an assault squad so they place a PDF and VOF, then moving tanks up on another adjacent card.

This would also suggest that more than one reaction shot is possible, though presumably each will use one ammo.

I find the tanks quite powerfull (particularly when the enemy is mostly LMG teams!) and I think this will help keep them in check. (The M10s in mission 7, with their -2 modifier are a lot more vunerable!).

Finally, I dealt with sniper by treating it as small arms fire with an additional -3 modifier (tank got pinned, ie commander shut the hatch, which seemed like a reasonble result).

Any comments on this interpretation would be welcome.
 
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Laurent Lhu
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Hello,
I've been carefully reading and re-reading the rules about vehicles and AT combat these times. There are still some shadows and gaps I think, especially when both infantry and vehicles are involved, but here's what I can say about your situations: (sorry for my english)

First some precisions of my understanding about AT and vehicles:
1) "AT combat" is a fire against a Vehicle target, performed by an AT unit (which has a gunnery modifier). It's always resolved in 3.6 phase.

2) "Infantry combat" is a fire against an Infantry target. It's the most usual combat mode in FoF, using the VOF/PDF system. It's resolved in 3.7.2 segment. The "firer" (originator of the VOF) may be an infantry unit as well as a vehicle, no matter if AT capable or not (The only thing to consider is its VOF rating).

3) In 3.6 phase are resolved all combats against Vehicle targets, using the "AT combat procedure" (detailed in 7.6). This may be "standard AT combat" (=firer is AT capable), and ALSO may be "VOF combat against Vehicle" (=firer is NOT AT capable) which is in fact an "AT combat" procedure using the AT value of the firer's VOF in place of "gunnery modifier" (The VOF's AT value is a kind of "simplified gunnery modifier" which doesn't vary with range).

4) 3.6 phase sums up all combat occuring against Vehicle during the turn; when 3.7.2 segment sums up all combat occuring against Infantry units during the turn. They are artificially separated in the game sequence for gameplay convenience, but represents events occuring simultneously during all the time of the turn.

davef wrote:
After some thought I think the easiest way to play these situations is to treat the VOF and Reaction fire independantly. So in the first situation the tank gets a H VOF against it as well as Reaction fire from the 75mm.
I agree with you: 2 different possible interpretations:

a) For game convenience, VOF is global and synthetic, and we don't track the components of a card's VOF:
There's a H VOF on the card which the tank enters, so the tanks has to take the VOF fire (although in this case it would represent a kind of a "non AT part of an AT weapon fire" - a bit strange, but for simplification purpose...).

b) per (7.5.B clarification): the tank can't receive both VOF and AT fire from the same unit when it moves.
To be understood:
FIRST resolve VOF ("AT fire using VOF's AT value") from unit(s) which are not eligible to Reaction Fire (substract the 75mmIG component when considering the card's VOF against the vehicle);
THEN resolve AT fire (Reaction Fire) from units not taken in accound in the preceding VOF fire (can fire in reaction: AT units whitin LOS and range, and which have not yet fired).

After reflexion I'll play b).

Quote:
In the second case, the gun continues with its H VOF on the infantry, but gets to make a Reaction shot at the tank. If this were not the case, then it would be fairly easy to sneak up on AT guns by distracting them with an assault squad so they place a PDF and VOF, then moving tanks up on another adjacent card.
When the 75mmIG fires in Reaction, it's like if it receives a "free" (no command expended) "auto-Activation for the Vehicle (3.6) phase".
So once fired, it should receive an "moved/fired" marker, an will no longer be able to "fire in 3.6": No more fire against a Vehicle, so no more reaction fire.
Note this could be different with a "Quick Shot capable" unit (ie 75mmPAK) obtaining a quick shot result to its reaction fire: in this case the unit wouldn't receive the "moved/fired" marker and would be able to "fire in 3.6" again, immediately or later.

I agree this may allow to "cheat" against the Enemy reacting unit. I think to a house rule, something like:
Enemy units don't always automatically fire in reaction when able to, but depending of the range (within their own range of course);
They fire in reaction only with a "1/4" draw at V range; "1-2/4" at L; "1-3/4" at C; "4/4" (auto) at P.

Quote:
This would also suggest that more than one reaction shot is possible, though presumably each will use one ammo.
1 ammo expense for each "3.6 fire" (in addition to the 1 ammo for the H VOF laid on card).

Quote:
Finally, I dealt with sniper by treating it as small arms fire with an additional -3 modifier (tank got pinned, ie commander shut the hatch, which seemed like a reasonble result).
Not a "-3" (VOF rating is for Infantry combat; see precision #3 above), but "+1" (the AT value coresponding to a "-3", or "H", VOF).

Any comments welcome...
Thanks
Lau
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