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Subject: Limits to Tokens and some other Questions (Fleets, Siege, political control) rss

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Chris K.
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Hi there!

We had our first few Games of HIS last week and a few questions came up, that we couldn't resolve to the satisfaction of all players. While we did go with majority rulings and die rolls to resolve them, we decided to try to clarify them before the next games. However Errata and FAQ didn't seem to resolve all of them and I couldn't find these in the forums so far.
So it would be great if we could get some answers, preferally with a good quote or specific location of the rule.

1) Is it possible to build units (naval or land) in a besieged city?

2) Is there a limit to the number of allied powers that can loan fleets to a player during the same turn?

3) Is there a limit to the number of fleets that a power may receive from his allies during this turn?

4) If an english fleet is loaned to Habsburg and is moved to a mediterranean sea zone via Gibraltar: Can the fleet still be returned to an english home port or would it have to be dissolved on behalf of being unable to go through Gibraltar?

5) Should the political control markers be considered limited intentionally and only placable if there are some left offboard?

Background to 1):
The Habsburg player was under siege from the english in Antwerp and argued that the word "occupied" in the construction rules implies that the enemy forces are in control of the area and no friendly forces are present. The german version seems to support this interpretation slightly, but we figured it could be read either way and it would only be logical that you can't build units in a city under siege.
Basically it boiled down to wether "occupied" was meant as in "enemy forces are present" or as in "there is a military occupation of the area in effect, which is only possible if there are no other forces present".

He also argued that if there was no sea blockade by enemy forces that would allow.him to build Units in Antwerp. However he couldn't back this up with rules and argued common sense ;-)


Background to 2) and 3)
The Habsburg player had managed to secure alliances with the French and English. Part of the deal was the loaning of the complete english fleet and most of the french fleet to combat a strong Ottoman player in the mediteranean. The Ottoman player argued that the maximum number of fleets loaned to the Habsburger should be limited by the number of loan markers present.
However we only found statements to intentional limits of tokens for the normal military units, so we ruled that it was sufficient to mark stacks of fleets with loan markers instead of seperate fleets.


Background to 4)
We also assumed that loaned fleet could be moved through Gibraltar, as they are treated like owned fleets but weren't sure about the reverting after the loan.

Background to 5)
During one of the games the Habsburg ran out of Political control markers, as the Schmalkaldic Leage was not in effect yet and he had already gained Hungary and some neutral areas.
Later in the same game the english ran out of markers when all of Britain and Scotland was english and protestant and he gained some areas.
In both cases we ruled that markers from other locations could be used, as we couldn't find anything to support that these were limited intentional (Habsburg cleared out hungary, as that was obviously under his control, for the english we declared all unmarked home areas of britain protestant to free up some markers).

Thanks for the attention and the answers in advance.

Cheers,
Chris
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Ed Beach
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1) No. If you look through the FAQ, you will also see that units can never be added to a stack under siege through the play of any cards either.

2) No limit.

3) No limit.

4) Fleets in the Atlantic may never be loaned to a power so that they are based in the Mediterranean (or vice versa). Note this section in 9.2:

"Naval units may not be loaned unless there is a path of sea zones connecting their current port with a port of the receiving power. This path may not include a port space (such as Gibraltar)."

5) Control markers are not limited. The only limits on counters are the land and naval combat force pools (which are explicitly mentioned in the rules as being absolute limits).
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Chris K.
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Wow, thanks a lot for the fast reply!

Thank you for confirming those readings.

Concerning your answer to number four:
We had found that rule and it kept the british from being loaned any fleets by the med powers. However we were unsure about the following situation:
The fleets were loaned from the English to the Habsburg who was still holding Antwerp. So they ended up stationed there to satisfy the section you quoted.
The Habsburg player then proceeded to move those fleets first to Gibraltar on his own impulses and Naval Movements. In a later Movement on a later impulse he moved those fleets out of Gibraltar into the Mediterranean.
We deemed this legal, as the section you quoted seemed to specifically apply to that loaning transfer at the start of the turn without any effect thereafter.

However we were then unsure as to how to proceed when the Alliance ended and the english fleets were still within the Med.

Should it rather be played in a way that the loaned fleets must always maintain such a line to a homeport throughout the turn?
Or simpler should loaned fleets be unable to cross from the Atlantic to the Med (and vice versa)?
 
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Ed Beach
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Well the rules for Winter return home are intentionally looser to allow fleets that have crossed Gibraltar to still make it home. So your English fleets could have returned to England as one would expect, moving through Gibraltar.

(As an aside though, for the sequel to HIS ("Virgin Queen") I am considering dividing the naval units into galleys and galleons and prohibiting galleys from leaving the Med entirely. We'll see if I decide to go that far or not.)
 
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Jason Johns
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A-HA!!! Finally, some snippet of news about the next one...muhuuuhahahahahahahahahahahah.

Any other news???


Ed Beach wrote:

(As an aside though, for the sequel to HIS ("Virgin Queen") I am considering dividing the naval units into galleys and galleons and prohibiting galleys from leaving the Med entirely. We'll see if I decide to go that far or not.)
 
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Ed Beach
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A bit. Here's what I reported on Consimworld yesterday:

We had two face-to-face initial 6-player tests of Virgin Queen two weeks ago. Lots of good notes and suggestions from those games.

I need to spend the next few weeks finalizing all the materials for "Battle Above the Clouds". But once that is done I'll be working on the next round of Virgin Queen revisions. I'm expecting to have it ready for demo at WBC this summer. Probably will start up Internet playtesting soon thereafter.
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Jason Johns
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Ed Beach wrote:
A bit. Here's what I reported on Consimworld yesterday:

We had two face-to-face initial 6-player tests of Virgin Queen two weeks ago. Lots of good notes and suggestions from those games.

I need to spend the next few weeks finalizing all the materials for "Battle Above the Clouds". But once that is done I'll be working on the next round of Virgin Queen revisions. I'm expecting to have it ready for demo at WBC this summer. Probably will start up Internet playtesting soon thereafter.


Cool. I volunteer our group. We are pretty speedy, playing a game in a couple of months.
 
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Chris K.
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Great!

Thanks a lot.
 
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