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Subject: Just played a quick game of Panzerblitz ...........and... rss

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Robert Wilson
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What a lot of fun that game is, after playing ASL and SFB, its nice to play a game in less than 30 minutes and blow up tanks!

great fun, its no ATS , but its a good beer n pretzels WW2 Eastern Front wargame
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Todd
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Panzerblitz was my introduction to war games. Loved it and Panzer Leader and Arab-Israeli Wars back in the early 80s.
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William Barnett-Lewis
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I certainly understand. I gave up on PG to go back to Panzer Leader because it was simpler, faster & just plain fun. Sometimes that makes a better game.
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This is the 'tank blowing up' game that has me the most excited:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/35400

Oh and pleeease, lets not start up the whole PB argument again. I think everyone knows where everyone stands on that. I'm pretty sure that the OP didn't start this thread to get a history lesson on the game's development, or a rant about why PB is such a bad game.
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Robert Wilson
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Actually, after the other thread I found the game in the basement to re-read the rules.

My brother who is semi-disabled at the moment due to injury was over for a visit during march break and saw it , we didnt feel like playing ASL ( 5 kids under 6 running around) so I taught him PB, we had a lot of fun, and the kids even helped out rolling the dice.
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John Kovacs
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I think sometimes, here on BGG (and probably elsewhere, too), that the whole point of games is overlooked...TO HAVE FUN. Yes, intelligent discussions about the games are welcomed; yes, various opinions about mechanics and CRTs and what-not are interesting too; yes, there are games which are meant to portray various periods and battles of human history (and some alien), but the whole purpose of games is to have fun, period. So let's have some fun, people!
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Hunga Dunga
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Indeed!

It's a relatively simple game with concise rules. The scenario deck includes sample of play cards. The charts are on the box cover inside the slipcase, so you can set the charts up vertically! (A diagram shows you how!)

What was astonishing about the game was the breadth of material available - everyting from carts and cavalry to obscure artillery and armor to nuances in German and Russian infantry organization - all abstracted into 4 different numbers and one letter on each counter.

The maps are elegant in their simplicity: four levels of terrain (gullies, normal, slopes, hilltops) were clearly identifiable, even if the hex you were examining contained a stack of three counters.

True, it wasn't sophisticated enough to include command and control (that's finally showing up in PBII), and it lacked opportunity fire rules. But it provided me with 100s of hours of amusement, and taught me a lot about the Russian front in WWII. It was a true gateway wargame. It introduced me to the hobby, and I used it to bring at least 3 more people into wargaming.

So, if my stats are average, the 250,000 copies that Avalon Hill supposedly sold would have created 1,000,000 wargamers!

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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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wargamesarefun wrote:
But anyway, anybody else ever tried Talonsoft's EF2? PC? Id find it interesting to hear PB fans that have tried this.


All subsequent tactical armor games, both board and computer, owe a debt to PanzerBlitz. What's the point in comparing it to something that came along many generations later, in a different medium?
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Hunga Dunga
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wargamesarefun wrote:
anybody else ever tried Talonsoft's EF2? PC? Id find it interesting to hear PB fans that have tried this.

Many, many years ago I spent waaay too much time with TalonSoft's Gettysburg game. I met the guys at an E3 conference and they let me play around with a beta of a WWII game - not sure if it was east front or west front...
 
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wargamesarefun wrote:
Infomanohio wrote:
I think sometimes, here on BGG (and probably elsewhere, too), that the whole point of games is overlooked...TO HAVE FUN. Yes, intelligent discussions about the games are welcomed; yes, various opinions about mechanics and CRTs and what-not are interesting too; yes, there are games which are meant to portray various periods and battles of human history (and some alien), but the whole purpose of games is to have fun, period. So let's have some fun, people!


The problem is though that some get all out of whack cause some person idea of fun is not to have such a watered down game play. So many here use the Grognard term as some term of disparagement or dirty word. Some also seem incapable of conceding that tastes differ. Most bizarrely some take personal offense to a person not liking a game they play. There's no fun when fan boys get on a warpath.

But anyway, anybody else ever tried Talonsoft's EF2? PC? Id find it interesting to hear PB fans that have tried this.



Matrix Games has re-released this game in a new series.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/318/details/John.Tiller%...

I have always looked for a great wargame on platoon level combat - the best for me was the refined Panzer '44/Mech War '77 system in October War. And all of those are 'offshoots' of PanzerBlitz.

When October War hit the market, I was so hoping it would go further - however, Mech War 2Suez to Golan was NOT the answer - those are the Campaign North Africa/Air War games of that genre.

 
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Hungadunga wrote:
Indeed!

It's a relatively simple game with concise rules. . . .


Funny--I bought PB the year it came out, then bought PL the year it came out. And I haven't seen or played either game since then.

But at the time, I was always trying in vain to get my wargaming buddy to play it. He hated it with a passion because it was too complicated!

And I agreed with that assessment--but I liked complicated games. PB was definitely much more complicated than some of the other wargames we were playing at the time: e.g., Waterloo, The Battle of the Bulge, Tactics II, D-Day, Kriegspiel, and Afrika Korps.

The whole idea of tactical-level games was brand-new to us, so it was like a paradigm shift. My friend borrowed the rules and read them, then reluctantly agreed to play a game or two. After that, he'd had enough.

So, it amazes me when I hear people say PB is a beer-and-pretzels game. Maybe it is, but I sure don't remember it that way!

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John Brady
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I played all of the Talonsoft WWII games when they first came out, but slowly got away from them. I actually broke down and bought the Matrix Games compilation version about 6 months ago. I still enjoy them, and those game where the shizzle when they came out, as there wasn't anything like at the time that was Windoze based, iirc.

Can't compare them to PB, though, as I never played it that much, even though I've owned it for almost 40 years .

 
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Hunga Dunga
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wargamesarefun wrote:
The system of EF2 is exaplined in depth in the documention and reading it as well as reviews of the game at the time the connection to Panzerbltiz was evident and noted by many reviews.

Panzerblitz certainly influenced many games.
 
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Colin Hunter
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I played the video games, but not panzer blitz. It is interesting to hear they lifted the systems from PB, but not that surprising given how unique and influential PB was. I wasn't 100% convinced by all the computer games, but I would almost go back and play them now, just to see how I felt. It does make me really excited about finally getting to play the boardgame and see what it is like. I suspect given how light it is I may not be completely up for it, but we shall see.
 
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Bill Gates
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wargamesarefun wrote:
Hungadunga wrote:
wargamesarefun wrote:
The system of EF2 is exaplined in depth in the documention and reading it as well as reviews of the game at the time the connection to Panzerbltiz was evident and noted by many reviews.

Panzerblitz certainly influenced many games.


It is panzerblitz with a few changes. Dunnigan and Rose and others made these as panzerblitz. They just didn't fix enough.


PanzerBlitz and the East Front/West Front games are alike only in that they both use platoon-level units and hex-based maps. Other than design some scenarios, Dunnigan had nothing to do with the creation of EF/WF. Jim Rose is credited with designing the game, with research help from Bob McNamara and Charles Kibler (formerly of Avalon Hill, like Rose).

Units in EF/WF have "action points" and can move and shoot in the same turn until their points are exhausted (and can fire more than once a turn, as long as they have the AP's). You can argue that "action points" are basically "movement points," but the key difference is units in EF/WF can move and shoot in the same turn, if the player desires, or fire more than once. Action points can also be saved for opportunity fire (it always irks me when people complain about the "Panzerbush" action in PB. Just use the opportunity fire rules introduced in Panzer Leader!).

Units in EF/WF have morale ratings. Units in EF/WF can "dig in" (fortify their positions). EF/WF has supply rules. Units can be fatigued as well as disrupted, and they can still fire (at reduced strength) while under that status (PB units suffered "dispersal", and couldn't fire until they were rallied).

Units in EF/WF also suffered incremental damage, with tank platoons usually having to be whittled down tank-by-tank. They also have a separate "assault" value, and no range values (range is taken into account when firing at a target to determine the effectiveness of the attack).

A reviewer can look at any WWII platoon-level, hex-based tactical combat game and say it "plays like PanzerBlitz." And they would be right, provided all that means is pushing platoons around a hex map. You might as well say East Front/West Front "plays like Blood and Thunder," or "plays like Assault."
 
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Quote:
The problem is though that some get all out of whack cause some person idea of fun is not to have such a watered down game play. So many here use the Grognard term as some term of disparagement or dirty word. Some also seem incapable of conceding that tastes differ. Most bizarrely some take personal offense to a person not liking a game they play. There's no fun when fan boys get on a warpath.


Admittedly, I just found BGG last November when looking at the WebGrognard site. I had been out of wargaming for about 10 years, and was delighted to see this site devoted to all board games. I had never heard the term "Eurogame" until becoming a member here. I'm an old school wargamer and have almost no interest in any Eurogames, but if that's what people want to play, who am I to disagree? I'm more interested in the newer wargames myself.

Why anyone here would say anything negative about what other people play is beyond me - to each their own. A lot of people probably don't like wargames but that is their opinion - I'm not going to lose any sleep over it and I'm going to continue to play them.

Let's all just have some fun and enjoy the fact that this wonderful website is here for ALL OF US. Spread the joy, the information, the entertainment, the history, the ups and downs of this hobby for all to enjoy. It's way too much fun here to have a bad time, no?
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Colin Hunter
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wargamesarefun wrote:

The problem is though that some get all out of whack cause some person idea of fun is not to have such a watered down game play. So many here use the Grognard term as some term of disparagement or dirty word.

I don't think that is the case to be honest. People don't use grognard with a negative connotation. I'm not saying though that there are not people who look down on grognards, just that the word is not used in a negative way.
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Colin Hunter
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wargamesarefun wrote:
ibn_ul_khattab wrote:
wargamesarefun wrote:

The problem is though that some get all out of whack cause some person idea of fun is not to have such a watered down game play. So many here use the Grognard term as some term of disparagement or dirty word.

I don't think that is the case to be honest. People don't use grognard with a negative connotation. I'm not saying though that there are not people who look down on grognards, just that the word is not used in a negative way.


I have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary on many forums but mostly here. The miniatures page. recently had a couplefor example.

You cynical old Grognard! Another refered to them as Crusty Curmudgeons.
The miniatures page is a different site, feel free to post a link to ones on this site though. Regardless the term is rarely if ever used as an insult, I'm not saying never, but I've been around this site for a few years and haven't seen it used much. I guess it is like eurogamer, many people call themselves eurogamers, but occasionally people will use it as a term of derision.
 
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Colin Hunter
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wargamesarefun wrote:
ibn_ul_khattab wrote:
wargamesarefun wrote:
ibn_ul_khattab wrote:
wargamesarefun wrote:

The problem is though that some get all out of whack cause some person idea of fun is not to have such a watered down game play. So many here use the Grognard term as some term of disparagement or dirty word.

I don't think that is the case to be honest. People don't use grognard with a negative connotation. I'm not saying though that there are not people who look down on grognards, just that the word is not used in a negative way.


I have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary on many forums but mostly here. The miniatures page. recently had a couplefor example.

You cynical old Grognard! Another refered to them as Crusty Curmudgeons.
The miniatures page is a different site, feel free to post a link to ones on this site though. Regardless the term is rarely if ever used as an insult, I'm not saying never, but I've been around this site for a few years and haven't seen it used much. I guess it is like eurogamer, many people call themselves eurogamers, but occasionally people will use it as a term of derision.


Well different people see different things. That doesn't mean cause you have not experienced it hasn't happened.
I'm not saying it never happened either I just doubt it is very frequent, I would say for example some one using Eurogamer negatively is far, far, far more common.
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I always enjoy blowing the dust off an old favorite and playing a wargame that could legally drink, if it were a person.

Glad to see I'm not alone enjoying Oldies But Goodies!
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Adam Boudreau
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wargamesarefun wrote:

Well different people see different things. That doesn't mean cause you have not experienced it hasn't happened.


Since you kept saying I should read this page, I just wanted to show you that I have. I won't hijack this thread to serve your negativity towards other people, just wanted to say I did read it.
 
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Adam Boudreau
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wargamesarefun wrote:
EtherealCleric wrote:
wargamesarefun wrote:

Well different people see different things. That doesn't mean cause you have not experienced it hasn't happened.


Since you kept saying I should read this page, I just wanted to show you that I have. I won't hijack this thread to serve your negativity towards other people, just wanted to say I did read it.


its the wrong one you idiot. Hree again your babblig and blundering into something you dont know about. Go sleep it off, your clearly drunk


You said the Panzerblitz thread, no link. Get over your fucking self. I'm done talking to you. You haphazardly accuse some guy in this thread of making contradictions and accusing him of all kinds of stuff. You have an incredibly bad attitude and you need to get over it.
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Adam Boudreau
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"Hide user posts" is an awesome function. I recommend you use it on me because I'm going to use it on you. That way you won't have to put up with my shit and I won't have to put up with your vendetta and not listening. I have no interest in what you have to say at this point anymore and I clearly don't care to develop a friendship with you due to how ridiculously rude you get and fly off the handle over really small things even though we both like wargames. Sheesh, and you think other people get bent out of shape over petty things. You seriously need to look in the mirror.

Anyway, lets compromise and use the "hide user" function. It's there for a reason afterall.
 
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Robert Wilson
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wargamesarefun wrote:
Threads are listed according to date. Can you tell time or read a calender after that much jameson?



I dont understand why you get so aggressive in your posts
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J.L. Robert
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dude163,

It's actually against site policy to announce that you're putting someone on Hide User, no matter how many other people may be doing it.

I'd recommend editing your post. But do what you will, and be sure to use the Report User feature if you feel the need to do so.
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