Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
45 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Rise and Decline of the Third Reich» Forums » Rules

Subject: Another empty hex question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So two armor units have started in supply and broke through. Then exploited. They are adjacent to an enemy armor unit but have an empty hex next to it. Can they attack that empty hex and advance into it? This is exploitation combat so would breakthrough apply! Does it need to? 14.40 seems to indicate I can do this--the exception cited is for beaches.

Other facts
They only moved on space in exploitation movement and the empty hex would be two hexes from the breakthrough hex--so the two space chain would be covered.
The last complication is that they are Italian armor, so does the advance after combat into the empty hex require MF's or is it automatic? Breakthrough does not. Nor normal advance after combat. A unit can move its full movement and then advance after combat, so I don't think that would apply.
(If they had 6 MF they could have moved to the empty hex they are attacking, irrelevant I would think)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
yea, found the answer--No
FAQ in Gamers guide

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeff coddington
United States
gary
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It actually depends on which edition you're playing. In the 1st and 2nd editions, this was allowed.
1 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
good point--We're playng 4th ed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CDR G wrote:
So two armor units have started in supply and broke through. Then exploited. They are adjacent to an enemy armor unit but have an empty hex next to it. Can they attack that empty hex and advance into it? This is exploitation combat so would breakthrough apply! Does it need to? 14.40 seems to indicate I can do this--the exception cited is for beaches.

Other facts
They only moved on space in exploitation movement and the empty hex would be two hexes from the breakthrough hex--so the two space chain would be covered.
The last complication is that they are Italian armor, so does the advance after combat into the empty hex require MF's or is it automatic? Breakthrough does not. Nor normal advance after combat. A unit can move its full movement and then advance after combat, so I don't think that would apply.
(If they had 6 MF they could have moved to the empty hex they are attacking, irrelevant I would think)

According to "The Gamer's Guide to Third Reich" in "The Definitive Question Box" segment which was official Avalon Hill answers to questions:
"14.4 May an exploiting unit attack a vacant hex so as to be able to
advance a hex farther?
A. No."
This supports 14.33: "... In no case may a unit exceed its movement factor."
So the Italian armor can never get to the 6th hex of a chain and the German armor cannot attack to a 7th hex.

Great gamesmanship though.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So Italian Armor executing exploitation movement and combat could not advance into a hex of an eliminated unit if it started in a zoc and moved one space. Through ZOC = 3 and leaving ZOC = 3 for 6 MF one more than Italian, French, Russian and French Armor have. Only Armor with 6 MF can do it.
So Armor starts next to an enemy armor move one space and is still in a ZOC, attacks a unit and wins- it can not advance into the empty hex.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CDR G wrote:
So Italian Armor executing exploitation movement and combat could not advance into a hex of an eliminated unit if it started in a zoc and moved one space. Through ZOC = 3 and leaving ZOC = 3 for 6 MF one more than Italian, French, Russian and French Armor have. Only Armor with 6 MF can do it.
So Armor starts next to an enemy armor move one space and is still in a ZOC, attacks a unit and wins- it can not advance into the empty hex.


Well. I think you may have one that I'm not so sure we've played correctly. Rule 14.33 clearly says no unit may exceed its movement factor and 14.36 says that an exploiting unit may advance into a vacated exploitation hex so long as 14.33 is obeyed. So yes the Italian armor can not advance into the vacated hex if it is still in a ZOC. You still chose the order of your exploitation combats and thus might be able to destroy the offending enemy armor before the Italian attack and thus allow post combat advance.

I can't wait to whip this one out the next time it pops up. A thumbs up for you.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Olsen

Rockville
Maryland
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I know I'm way late with this one, but -

I don't think the "exceed movement factor" restriction applies following advance after combat - even exploitation combat. The advance after combat should not cost any movement points. (at least, that's the way we always played it).

The only restriction on advancing after exploitation combat is that the advance can't break the "chain" of exploiting units.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Napoleon_the_Worst wrote:
I know I'm way late with this one, but -

I don't think the "exceed movement factor" restriction applies following advance after combat - even exploitation combat. The advance after combat should not cost any movement points. (at least, that's the way we always played it).

The only restriction on advancing after exploitation combat is that the advance can't break the "chain" of exploiting units.

Judging by the answers in The Definitive Answer Box: A unit may move its maximum movement, attack, advance after combat but then not exceed its movement point again. That is to say an Italian armor can move 5 mps then advance to the the breakthrough hex, and can end up no farther than 5 mps from that hex including the final combat hex.

Another way is you sort of, can have two full movements with an exploiting armor not counting its move to the breakthrough hex. I am certain by the answers that you could not move a German armor 6, advance one to the breakthrough, advance 6 more, attack and then go one more hex as per 14.33 and as diagramed in figure 3 of that section of the rules.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
As I recall, you could, theoretically, move 13 spaces in a turn. Move six spaces to be adjacent to a breakthrough battle, advance into the break through hex then be part of a group of 3 or more armor units that exploit a chain up to six hexes. I don't think you can move again even if you attack in the exploitation phase. Except possibly if you move less than 6 hexes, I guess you could advance into a breakthrough hex and if you keep the two hex chain.
One could get one more hex with a paratrooper.
I have only seen this on the East front and once when someone moved from the East front to the West and then into France.
Mike G
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CDR G wrote:
As I recall, you could, theoretically, move 13 spaces in a turn. Move six spaces to be adjacent to a breakthrough battle, advance into the break through hex then be part of a group of 3 or more armor units that exploit a chain up to six hexes. I don't think you can move again even if you attack in the exploitation phase. Except possibly if you move less than 6 hexes, I guess you could advance into a breakthrough hex and if you keep the two hex chain.
One could get one more hex with a paratrooper.
I have only seen this on the East front and once when someone moved from the East front to the West and then into France.
Mike G


I agree completely.
What you can not do is: advance six hexes in exploitation, attack and advance a seventh hex; even if there is a chain of three other armored units making a chain of six hexes
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
o the difference between Jay's position and ours is an advance beyond six hexes into a breakthrough hex in exploitation combat. All other conditions applying ( so in my example of 13 hexes there might two or more armor at the the end of the two hex chain that fight and win an exploitation battle and then advance into the breakthrough hex. That would make the theoretical max movement 14 hexes for a German or American armor.

Does the DOS game allow this?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well SOB, yes it does.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Napoleon_the_Worst wrote:
I know I'm way late with this one, but -

I don't think the "exceed movement factor" restriction applies following advance after combat - even exploitation combat. The advance after combat should not cost any movement points. (at least, that's the way we always played it).

The only restriction on advancing after exploitation combat is that the advance can't break the "chain" of exploiting units.


Well, it would seem I have inferred something in the rules and from the Question Box that is not there. There's a slew of posts I'll have to edit and apologize for.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SewerStarFish wrote:
Napoleon_the_Worst wrote:
I know I'm way late with this one, but -

I don't think the "exceed movement factor" restriction applies following advance after combat - even exploitation combat. The advance after combat should not cost any movement points. (at least, that's the way we always played it).

The only restriction on advancing after exploitation combat is that the advance can't break the "chain" of exploiting units.


Well, it would seem I have inferred something in the rules and from the Question Box that is not there. There's a slew of posts I'll have to edit and apologize for.


Upon further review and discussion amongst the grognards of my circle, when I thought I was wrong, I was wrong:

Source : The Gamers Guide to Third Reich - The Definitive Question Box
by Larry Bucher & Don Greenwood

*14.36* Can you be more precise on exactly what constitutes 'breaking
the chain' when advancing after exploitation combat?
*A.* Two requirements must be met: 1) the hex advanced into must be
adjacent to the previous unit in the chain /or/ be separated from it by
one hex already passed through by an exploiting unit; 2) the advance
must not leave a more distant unit in the chain in violation of the
first requirement."

So no you cannot advance into the seventh hex. That would break the
chain with the middle hex of the exploitation. You see both the armored units that go the 6th hex are attached to the 4th hex as neither could advance during movement (not having 7 MP) then neither could advance after combat because that would seperate it from the 4th hex unit by more than one hex.

Further more 14.33 "... In no case may a unit exceed its movement factor, which is counted from the breakthrough hex and is limited normally by the ZOC of any enemy armor in the vicinity." seems to apply.

Finally, though unsubstantiated, one of my group remembers a post-Gamer's Guide General that specifically answers this question with: "No, a unit may not advance the 7th hex" Take that for what it's worth.


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oh my God They Banned Kenny
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I am also in the 'no, you cannot do it' camp. Some good points have already been made. I would also note that the basis for being able to do it (i.e. attack a vacant hex and advance into it during exploitation) is rule 14.4. However, that rule is clearly referencing the ability to attack a vacant hex in order to create a breakthrough. Since you cannot create another breakthrough during exploitation, I would say 14.4 is not applicable to already exploiting armour. Having said all that, I believe it is a valid question, and raises the possiblity that perhaps 14.4 should be 'tweaked' to make it clearer that the vacant hex attack is only allowed during the 'regular' combat phase, not during exploitation combat.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So to be clear, regardless of whether its a breakthrough hex, there is no advance after combat in exploitation combat?

The basic question is the advance after combat.

Is advance after combat limited by the unit's movement factor in the normal attack phase? (I have never played that)
If not, can you move a 7th hex into a breakthrough hex in regular combat?
(that's my understanding)
If you can only advance after combat to a breakthrough hex and there is no breakthrough hex created in Exploitation combat then you can not advance.

If in the regular attack phase one can move 6 hexes, participate in an attack and then advance to a breakthrough, that makes 7 hexes. All the other conditions on chains and adjacency could be met if you have the units and initial movement. All adjacent armor get a free move onto the Breakthrough hex, Then if you have enough armor a chain of six is straight forward. If you still have enough armor you caould attack a hex at the end of the chain.
Advance into that hex would not break the chain, it would be adjacent.
However if you can't advance because you need to make a breakthrough hex in order to advance then no advance.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oh my God They Banned Kenny
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
My response was on a somewhat different question, which was just whether a vacant hex could be attacked during exploitation - to which I say no, for reasons previously given.

My understanding is that eligible armour units may exploitation move, attack, then advance. Only the movement portion is limited by movement points.

Quote:
14.36 Exploiting units that survive their Exploitation attacks may advance to occupy the defender’s hex, but not if such advance would break the required two-hex chain of Exploiting units. Note that such an advance does not constitute a new Breakthrough hex, and that the intervening hex between the last unit in the chain and the hex to which the attacker advances must be one through which the attacker advances as per 14.33


Regarding advance after exploitation combat, the only limitation, as per 14.36, is that the 'chain' of an exploiting armour unit every 2 hexes is not broken by the advance. Bascially this means that if you only have 1 armour unit attacking, and it has moved out 2 hexes from the next closest exploiting armour unit, then it cannot advance another hex away, because that would break the 'chain'. But if you have 2 armour units in that same position, one could advance as long as the other remained behind to maintain the chain.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CDR G wrote:
So to be clear, regardless of whether its a breakthrough hex, there is no advance after combat in exploitation combat?

The basic question is the advance after combat.

Is advance after combat limited by the unit's movement factor in the normal attack phase? (I have never played that)
If not, can you move a 7th hex into a breakthrough hex in regular combat?
(that's my understanding)
If you can only advance after combat to a breakthrough hex and there is no breakthrough hex created in Exploitation combat then you can not advance.

If in the regular attack phase one can move 6 hexes, participate in an attack and then advance to a breakthrough, that makes 7 hexes. All the other conditions on chains and adjacency could be met if you have the units and initial movement. All adjacent armor get a free move onto the Breakthrough hex, Then if you have enough armor a chain of six is straight forward. If you still have enough armor you caould attack a hex at the end of the chain.
Advance into that hex would not break the chain, it would be adjacent.
However if you can't advance because you need to make a breakthrough hex in order to advance then no advance.


The DQB answer for 14.36 that I have above is not "you can't advance" but is you can under these conditions. So, yes, you can advance after an exploitation attack. We are all quite certain that you can not advance in a way that breaks the chain; i.e. you have only 2 exploiting units, advance one two hexes and the next two more in a straight line -- that exploiting unit can attack the next hex in the line but could not advance because it would then be three hexes from exploiter #1. You could use that exploiting unit to attack and advance back towards #1 so that #2 ends up adjacent to #1.

You could also attack laterally and advance if the hex advanced into fits "/or/ be separated from it by one hex already passed through by an exploiting unit. This is a nuance that often is ignored and misplayed. Unit #2 is still only 2 hexes from #1 but the separating hex must have been exploited through by some other unit.

Unit #1 could not attack and advance backward such that #2 would then be three hexes from #1.

Now with more units you can go six hexes from the breakthrough. The #3 unit is attached the #2.

The only point really under debate is if a fourth unit also moves with #3 can it advance that seventh hex? The crux of the debate is how to parse: 14.33 "... In no case may a unit exceed its movement factor, which is counted from the breakthrough hex and is limited normally by the ZOC of any enemy armor in the vicinity." andRule 14.36 with DQB 14.36 "Can you be more precise on exactly what constitutes 'breaking
the chain' when advancing after exploitation combat?
A. Two requirements must be met: 1) the hex advanced into must be
adjacent to the previous unit in the chain ..."

IMO The #4 unit is just as attached to the #2 unit as #3 is; and thus cannot go the seventh hex.

Others read these rules as #4 can advance because it quite simply is attached to #3 in the chain.

I know what my opinion is but I can see how and why others see it their way.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Gallagher
United States
Fredericksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Fair enough
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oh my God They Banned Kenny
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
SewerStarFish wrote:
....The only point really under debate is if a fourth unit also moves with #3 can it advance that seventh hex? The crux of the debate is how to parse: 14.33 "... In no case may a unit exceed its movement factor, which is counted from the breakthrough hex and is limited normally by the ZOC of any enemy armor in the vicinity." andRule 14.36 with DQB 14.36 "Can you be more precise on exactly what constitutes 'breaking
the chain' when advancing after exploitation combat?
A. Two requirements must be met: 1) the hex advanced into must be
adjacent to the previous unit in the chain ..."

IMO The #4 unit is just as attached to the #2 unit as #3 is; and thus cannot go the seventh hex.

Others read these rules as #4 can advance because it quite simply is attached to #3 in the chain.

I know what my opinion is but I can see how and why others see it their way.


I disagree that 14.33 is relevant to the question of advance after exploitation combat. IMHO it is clear that 14.33 is only in reference to exploitation movement. The only restriction on advancing is related to not breaking the 'chain'. Now I appreciate your point that, even if you advance two armour units to the end of the chain, for both of them the same unit 2 hexes back is the 'previous unit in the chain'.

In lieu of a picture, allow me to describe a situation and hopefully that will be clear. Let us say 4 armour units are eligible for exploitation. Let us assume they all have 6 movement points, and that they move in a 'straight line' along the hex grain. All four move through the first hex to the second, one unit staying behind in the second hex. Then three units move through the third hex to the fourth hex. One stays behind and two units move through the fifth hex into the sixth. Those two units in the sixth hex attack an enemy in the seventh hex. Now, as I understand it, your point is for both of those units in the sixth hex, the 'previous unit in the chain' is the one unit in the fourth hex. So if either unit advanced into the seventh hex, it would be 'breaking the chain'. Hopefully I have that correct.

Now change the above example somewhat. Everything is the same up to the two units moving out of the fourth hex, but now assume one of the two stops in the the fifth hex. The other continues into the sixth hex, and attacks. The 'previous unit in the chain' for the sixth unit is the unit in the fifth hex. In that situation there is, IMHO, no doubt at all that the the 'previous unit' for the unit in the sixth hex is the unit in the fifth hex, and therefore the unit in the sixth hex can clearly advance into the seventh hex as a result of combat.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
deadkenny wrote:

Now change the above example somewhat. Everything is the same up to the two units moving out of the fourth hex, but now assume one of the two stops in the the fifth hex. The other continues into the sixth hex, and attacks. The 'previous unit in the chain' for the sixth unit is the unit in the fifth hex. In that situation there is, IMHO, no doubt at all that the the 'previous unit' for the unit in the sixth hex is the unit in the fifth hex, and therefore the unit in the sixth hex can clearly advance into the seventh hex as a result of combat.


No, both units in the fifth hex are attached to the one in the fourth (IMO), and whether there are one or two units in the fifth hex there could be an advance to the sixth,or the two units could both go to separate hexes.. Your example really doesn't answer the question.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oh my God They Banned Kenny
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
SewerStarFish wrote:

No, both units in the fifth hex are attached to the one in the fourth (IMO), and whether there are one or two units in the fifth hex there could be an advance to the sixth,or the two units could both go to separate hexes.. Your example really doesn't answer the question.


Sorry, but I honestly don't understand why you are assuming that both units in the fifth and sixth hexes would be 'tied' to the fourth unit. There is no requirement that units in the 'chain' be every other hex. Why would the 'previous unit in the chain' for the unit in the sixth hex not be the unit in the fifth hex?


EDIT:

Quote:
14.33 After all normal ground combat has been resolved, movement may be made from each Breakthrough hex as follows: the first Exploiting unit may only move up to two hexes from the Breakthrough hex, Each subsequent Exploiting unit may either move up to two hexes from the Breakthrough hex, or duplicate exactly the move of a previous Exploiting unit and then move up to two additional hexes of its own. In no case may a unit exceed its movement factor, which is counted from the Breakthrough hex and is limited normally by the ZOC of any enemy armor in the vicinity.


The key is 'up to two hexes' - i.e. each unit in the chain may be one or two hexes from the previous unit in the chain.


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Bauer
United States
Reading
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Waste Water too
badge
Mid-Atlantic Air Museum
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
deadkenny wrote:
SewerStarFish wrote:

No, both units in the fifth hex are attached to the one in the fourth (IMO), and whether there are one or two units in the fifth hex there could be an advance to the sixth,or the two units could both go to separate hexes.. Your example really doesn't answer the question.


Sorry, but I honestly don't understand why you are assuming that both units in the fifth and sixth hexes would be 'tied' to the fourth unit. There is no requirement that units in the 'chain' be every other hex. Why would the 'previous unit in the chain' for the unit in the sixth hex not be the unit in the fifth hex?
EDIT:
Quote:
14.33 After all normal ground combat has been resolved, movement may be made from each Breakthrough hex as follows: the first Exploiting unit may only move up to two hexes from the Breakthrough hex, Each subsequent Exploiting unit may either move up to two hexes from the Breakthrough hex, or duplicate exactly the move of a previous Exploiting unit and then move up to two additional hexes of its own. In no case may a unit exceed its movement factor, which is counted from the Breakthrough hex and is limited normally by the ZOC of any enemy armor in the vicinity.


The key is 'up to two hexes' - i.e. each unit in the chain may be one or two hexes from the previous unit in the chain.


Okay let me come at this from a different angle: I'll quote the entire rule:
14.36 Exploiting units that survive their Exploitation attacks may advance to occupy the defender’s hex, but not if such advance would break the required two-hex chain of Exploiting units. Note that such an advance does not constitute a new Breakthrough hex, and that the intervening hex between the last unit in the chain and the hex to which the attacker advances must be one through which the attacker advances as per 14.33.


Note that the last sentence says quite clearly that the advance after combat must be an advance per 14.33

and 14.33:
14.33 After all normal ground combat has been resolved, movement may be made from each Breakthrough hex as follows: the first Exploiting unit may only move up to two hexes from the Breakthrough hex, Each subsequent Exploiting unit may either move up to two hexes from the Breakthrough hex, or duplicate exactly the move of a previous Exploiting unit and then move up to two additional hexes of its own. In no case may a unit exceed its movement factor, which is counted from the Breakthrough hex and is limited normally by the ZOC of any enemy armor in the vicinity.

This rule's last sentence clearly states that no unit may exceed its movement allowance. Thus advancing a seventh hex after combat in 14.36 violates 14.33 which 14.36 says you can not do.

As an aside:
DQB 14.33 May a single exploiting armor unit move up to the limit of its MF as long as it remains within two hexes of the breakthrough hex?
A. No. This type of question has been asked so frequently that we feel obliged to reiterate what the rule already states. The first exploiting unit may enter only two hexes other than the breakthrough hex. A second exploiting unit may (a) move two hexes in a different route or (b) duplicate exactly the move of the first then move two additional hexes. A third exploiting unit may do either (a) or (b), or may duplicate exactly the route of the second one, then move one or two additional hexes depending on its MF.


If you note the last sentence of this one, the third unit may duplicate the second unit and move one or two. There is no reference to a fourth unit following a shorted third movement. Now it's only my opinion but this may be because every possible combination is covered by moving to the second unit and then exploiting one or two. And that's where I got the attached to the second for my explanation. Truthfully I was only using that as tool to explain why you cannot go the seventh hex. I think the last sentence of 14.36 and 14.33 are enough.

IMO you can move an armor unit 6 hexes be adjacent to another "breakthrough" armor and advance 2 more hexes to the breakthrough and then exploit and advance after combat no more than 6 hexes so long as there is a chain of 2 back to the breakthrough. That's a total of 14.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oh my God They Banned Kenny
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
SewerStarFish wrote:

Okay let me come at this from a different angle: I'll quote the entire rule:
14.36 Exploiting units that survive their Exploitation attacks may advance to occupy the defender’s hex, but not if such advance would break the required two-hex chain of Exploiting units. Note that such an advance does not constitute a new Breakthrough hex, and that the intervening hex between the last unit in the chain and the hex to which the attacker advances must be one through which the attacker advances as per 14.33.


Note that the last sentence says quite clearly that the advance after combat must be an advance per 14.33


OK, that is the first point upon which we disagree. The last sentence says, dropping the initial part about not constituting a new breakthrough hex which doesn't matter for this discussion:

Quote:
....and that the intervening hex between the last unit in the chain and the hex to which the attacker advances must be one through which the attacker advances as per 14.33


So it does not say "that the advance after combat must be an advance per 14.33", it simply says that the "intervening hex between the last unit in the chain and the hex to which the attacker advance" must be. In other words the restriction of 14.33 here is not on the hex advanced into, but on the intervening hex.

I still do not agree that the movement point restriction in 14.33 applies to the advance after (exploitation) combat, but only to the exploitation movement. In the exploitation movement, units are restricted by both movement allowance, and the need to maintain the 'chain'. In advance after exploitation combat the restrictions are only to maintain the chain, as per 14.36, which further requires the 'intervening' hex after the advance to be one moved through in the exploitation movement which established the chain.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.