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Subject: Empires in Arms is too long - what should we replace it with? rss

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Tom Hancock
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Empires in Arms is a great game and our group loves it. However, it requires 8 players who can commit to at least two twelve hour weekend days a month to make it work. It is really hard to schedule, especially when people have kids or wives or jobs or a life or all 4.

We are looking for a game to replace EIA at least temporarily. The characteristics EIA has we would like to find in it's replacement are the following:

1. Negotiation/alliances/shifting loyalties
2. Group strategy sessions
3. Plays a decent number of players, somewhere in the 4-8 range
4. A minimal level of historical accuracy OR a decent theme
5. Epic scope or feel

Of course, it is impossible to do all these things in a game that isn't as big of a commitment as EiA. If I get some recommendations for a game or two that does MOST of these things I'll be happy.

We are thinking about doing a combined Europe Engulfed / Asia Engulfed game. Anyone had any experience with this? It looks like a two day commitment, and probably has 2, 3, 4, and 5 even if it doesn't hit 1.

Also looking at Dune, which is a one day game, but has 1, 3, 4, and maybe 5?

Any other ideas?

Help me wargamers!!!
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Michael Hanickel
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maybe Struggle of Empires
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Andreas Krüger
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I would ike to see the answers :-). I enjoyed EiA so much as a student, but nowadays it is impossible to find seven players who are willing to spend even two days on a game...

What I liked about EiA is the very formal act of creating an alliance which had a real impact on the victory points. Nobody would lightly break an alliance.
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Tim P.
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If you like EIA what about these multi-player but still meaty games

The Napoleonic Wars (Second Edition)
Here I Stand
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Russ Williams
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I guess Diplomacy is too obvious to mention?

For 4 players but not more, alas, an unexpected vaguely possible choice for you might be Friedrich. At least it sounds cool and different, though I guess it is shorter and more euro/wargame hybrid than you are looking for.
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John Gant
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Hi Tom!

I recently struggled with exactly the same question. EiA is very long (too long, generally) so what else could get the job done?

I have found a very happy home with War and Peace. The wealth of work done in the years since this was first released is quite impressive. Gathered all together in to the 3rd Edition Rulebook this game is doing very well, again, and has always been quite good for 4-6 players. Far more approachable than EiA, while still capturing the flavor of the times War and Peace is an excellent choice. The VASSAL module is well done, and the game itself is easy to acquire.

Good luck in your hunt! Feel free to contact me if you would like more information on this game.

--JokerRulez
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Patrick Martin
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I would second Here I Stand. It covers all your points except possibly #2. If you're experienced with the system, I think you could play a complete game in a longish day, or the shorter tournament scenario in a longish evening.
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Matt Thrower
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russ wrote:
For 4 players but not more, alas, an unexpected vaguely possible choice for you might be Friedrich. At least it sounds cool and different, though I guess it is shorter and more euro/wargame hybrid than you are looking for.


Friedrich is a great game but it's not what you're looking for - maximum 4 players and only a little negotiation.

I'd third Here I Stand. I'm sure you're aware it's pretty popular with the F:AT crowd and it is a very good game provided you can find the time - which it sounds like you can. Plays well PBEM as well.

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Tom Hancock
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One of our players in the EiA game owns Here I Stand, that one is definitely on the short list. Thanks for all the good suggestions, keep them coming!

Anyone had experience with the combined EE/AE game?

 
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G. Harding Warren
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JokerRulez wrote:
Hi Tom!

I recently struggled with exactly the same question. EiA is very long (too long, generally) so what else could get the job done?

I have found a very happy home with War and Peace. The wealth of work done in the years since this was first released is quite impressive. Gathered all together in to the 3rd Edition Rulebook this game is doing very well, again, and has always been quite good for 4-6 players. Far more approachable than EiA, while still capturing the flavor of the times War and Peace is an excellent choice. The VASSAL module is well done, and the game itself is easy to acquire.

Good luck in your hunt! Feel free to contact me if you would like more information on this game.

--JokerRulez


Wow. I took a look at the link for the 3rd edition rules. That is really wonderful what you have done.

I am really trying to stop my games acquisitions, and you've made this a lot harder.

I had both Empires in Arms and War & Peace years ago and they were destroyed in a flood together with all my other AH games. I would not consider repurchasing Empires in Arms, as I know I will never find enough time or opponents, but W&P is something altogether different. What a fantastic game that was. I might just have to drop by ebay just one last time to see if I might buy this one.
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Richard Would
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Get the computer version of EiA. Some rules things I don't like, but then you can all play at your leisure.

And I would also look at Struggle Of Empires. Not as in depth as EiA but it sounds like a game your group could get finished.
 
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I have a very soft spot for Pax Britannica...
 
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John Gant
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Hey there UHB1,
UHB1 wrote:
Wow. I took a look at the link for the 3rd edition rules. That is really wonderful what you have done.

Thank you very much for your kind words. I hope you will give it another go, great fun! War and Peace just seemed like a game with a lot going for it, just in need of a bit of help. I'm hoping the 3rd Edition Rulebook will deliver on that promise. I have 3 scenario games in progress on VASSAL and am working towards multiple Campaign Games. Give me a shout if you get going again.

--JokerRulez
 
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Tom Hancock
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Struggle of empires is fun and we have played that before, but its so short we can play it on our regular game night. We are looking for something more in the here i stand time frame - two days or more.
 
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Mattwran
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My first suggestion would be Here I Stand, but if you end up with fewer players (4) then Pax Romana is fantastic. Wild swings of fortune, alliances, epic feel, it has it all. I wrote a session report of one our sessions here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/189230.
 
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Shane Is Board
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You may want to try a game you already own, Dune...obviously it's lacking in the "historical" aspect, but I hope the interesting theme would make up for it.

It has a lot of what you're asking for and can be finished in a day (sometimes teh game is long, sometimes less depending on how alliances shake out). Give it a go!
 
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Bill Lawson
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I to would recommend War and Peace.
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Michael Debije
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Republic of Rome may be what you need.
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Nomadic Gamer
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Joan of Arc (read the FAQ)
Serenissima (variant for 5 players)
 
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Frank McNally
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Second that Republic Of Rome recommendation with a good group the game shines.
 
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Rick Byrens
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If you're looking for fun with not too much downtime between player turns, HiS and Nappy Wars are both miles ahead of EiA and/or War and Peace. Go New School not Old School!
 
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Kevin Roach
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I would also recommend War and Peace
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Todd Pytel
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Just another vote for Here I Stand, even though you already mentioned it's on your list. It sits nicely at the boundary between "epic" and "unplayable" and hits pretty much all the points you mentioned. I'm in a semi-regular HIS group that plays a few times per year and the games are always something to remember. At the same time, we can (just barely) manage the schedules to get all six of us into the same room for 8-10 hours. The only reservation I might have is that it does favor exactly six players. We played with only five for the first time in our last game, and while it certainly didn't kill the fun, we agreed that the diplomacy was a bit shallower. So if you're fluctuating a lot between 4-8, you may want some other games as well.
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