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Subject: Sorcerers -- thoughts on what "once per turn and per opponent" means rss

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John
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Just read the rules for this today. Sounds fun!

I didn't quite understand one part of the sorcerers' powers. The power can be used "once per turn and per opponent." "Once per turn" I understand. And "once per opponent" I understand. But combining those two limitations into "once per turn and per opponent" gives me pause. Does it mean:

* You may only use the power against a given opponent only once in the entire game. Once you use the power against one opponent, you may use it against a different opponent, but not on the same turn as you used it against the previous opponent.

-- or --

* You may use the power more than once against the same opponent, but you may only target that opponent once during a given turn.

The way the rules are written, it sounds like the first option -- but that seems really limiting, unless I am majorly underrating the bonus this power gives.

Also, does the word "opponent" refer to the player or to the race being targeted?
 
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Todd Warnken
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Harrison
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I think the "and" shouldn't be there. I believe on your turn you can use the power once against each opponent.

They need to address this in a FAQ.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Valid question. I read that if you have 3 people you are playing against, you may use the ability thrice each turn - once against each player, to target a region occupied by the active race he or she controls. Perhaps the "and" shouldn't have been included between "turn" and "per". But I could be wrong.
 
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Ethan Johnson
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My take was the same: use it against each opponent each turn. I would've worded it "once per opponent per turn" for clarity.
 
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Asa Swain
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The once per opponent restriction is a nice way to keep you from ganging up on one person. Otherwise you could take over all the provinces of a declining civ (which by rule has 1 unit per square) in one turn!
 
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H-B-G
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quartex wrote:
The once per opponent restriction is a nice way to keep you from ganging up on one person. Otherwise you could take over all the provinces of a declining civ (which by rule has 1 unit per square) in one turn!


It is specified that the power can only be used against an opponent's active race, so declined races would be immune, but I do wonder whether once per opponent means that the power can only be used a single time against an opponent period. Once per opponent per turn sound potentially very powerful, maybe too powerful.
 
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Allen Doum
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DaveD wrote:
quartex wrote:
The once per opponent restriction is a nice way to keep you from ganging up on one person. Otherwise you could take over all the provinces of a declining civ (which by rule has 1 unit per square) in one turn!


It is specified that the power can only be used against an opponent's active race, so declined races would be immune, but I do wonder whether once per opponent means that the power can only be used a single time against an opponent period. Once per opponent per turn sound potentially very powerful, maybe too powerful.

Given that each other player will have a 1 turn warning before the Sorcerors make their first attack, then each will be able to provide for their own defense. And if the Sorcerors can't fly, once they are on the board it should be faily easy to contain them. And you can always go into decline, and their power becomes useless against you.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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DaveD wrote:
quartex wrote:
The once per opponent restriction is a nice way to keep you from ganging up on one person. Otherwise you could take over all the provinces of a declining civ (which by rule has 1 unit per square) in one turn!


It is specified that the power can only be used against an opponent's active race, so declined races would be immune, but I do wonder whether once per opponent means that the power can only be used a single time against an opponent period. Once per opponent per turn sound potentially very powerful, maybe too powerful.


Not really. Consider that the sorcerer essentially gives you a 4 unit "discount" in conquering an eligible region (it practically costs "-1" to conquer something that should have taken 3). It seems powerful, but it's highly situational.

Amazons essentially get the same thing, but instead of getting a "discount" to conquer a world, they just get a temporary surplus of 4 units. It amounts to practically the same, only it generally more versatile as they aren't restricted to using against only lone units. The drawback here is that it essentially is only used ONCE during the turn, rather than once per opponent.

When you compare the sorcerers to the amazons, it really becomes quite clear that sorcerers ability MUST be usable more than once per turn. If it could only be used once a turn, and could NEVER be used twice on the same player, it would be vastly underpowered.

It's also pretty easy to defend yourself against sorcerers simply by taking the opportunity to go into decline. Their ability is useless on declined races, and if your active race isn't on the board yet then the sorcerer is not any threat. Once the sorcerer has been deployed, you can deploy your new race in such a way that the sorcerers simply aren't a threat to you.
 
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Antoine P.
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Hi there,

"Once per turn and per opponent" does mean "once per opponent per turn". Sorry if it was not clear enough. ninja

 
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Lukasz Sobczyk
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I think "against each opponent once per turn" would leave no doubt.

And the major power sorcerers posses is not -1 to conquer a region, it's the ability to multiplicate. Each race is getting weaker as the time passes but sorcerers like skeletons have an option of actually increasing their numbers.
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