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Subject: Image Upload: A can of worms rss

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Frank Eisenhauer
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For the last two years I have been noticing more and more posts concerning Image Uploads. Whether it is the quality of the uploaded image or the quantity of pictures for a given game, the type of picture (artistic / informative) or the caption (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/390154).

I think it is time we had a discussion about what we think about:
1. What purpose do we think an uploaded image should serve?
2. Should there be a maximum of pictures per game entry?
3. Should there be a maximum / minimum file size / resolution for images?
4. Can we formulate a standard that Admins can adhere to?
5. Is paying GG for image uploads still a good idea?

I realize that there are no simple answers for these questions and that there are probably further important questions that I did not come up with. I invite you to add those questions to this thread.

To start of a discussion:
In recent month the question of data storage / loading times came up, in combination with question Nr. 2 I propose that there should be no more than 100 pictures per game entry and that every admin that wants to add anew picture to the entry once this maximum is reached has to delete an old entry first. That way the question "Do we really need this new image?" will be reinforced. For example: While I love some of the artistic images to be found in the game galleries, I question the usefulness of high number of artistic pictures for some games.
Please be aware that I sincerely try to find a way to cut the chaff and make BGG Image galleries more manageable, raise the quality of content.
Maybe we can find another place for artistic pictures?

This is just one area were a clear definition of what we want to archive with image uploads on BGG could lead to a reduction in unnecessary data.

Please discuss nicely, don't start a flame war!

Sincerely
Frank


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Nico Solitander
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The issue of course will not be resolved, because neither this thread nor moderation is representative of the whole community, and the value of images is really in the eye of the beholder - something a lot of people seem to have a problem with, it would be easier if an image's worth would follow some pre-given chart or code, but it doesn't. But I'll have a stab at your questions.

1. What purpose do we think an uploaded image should serve?

Purposes vary, they can be representative, informative, creative, funny, satiric, surprising, clever, creative, cute etc etc.

2. Should there be a maximum of pictures per game entry?

No, as that would be as problematic as limiting the number of reviews. Some of the greatest pictures I've seen have been for games that already have loads of entries. You cannot predict by numbers when beauty appears.

3. Should there be a maximum / minimum file size / resolution for images?

No. For some games without images, and that have been without images from the beginning any resolution image is better than none.

4. Can we formulate a standard that Admins can adhere to?

No, because there is no standard formula to what people find representative, informative, creative, funny, satiric, surprising, clever, creative, cute etc etc. A community is rarely very standard.

5. Is paying GG for image uploads still a good idea?

Yes, because GG is not away from anybody. It's a friggin' fictional currency. Is thumbing a bad idea, yes sometimes because it gives incentive from pretty lame entries but it doesn't mean we should stop thumbing...
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Frank Eisenhauer
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nsolitander wrote:


The issue of course will not be resolved, because either this thread or moderation is representative of the whole community, and the value of images is really in the eye of the beholder - something a lot of people seem to have a problem with, it would be easier if an image's worth would follow some pre-given chart or code, but it doesn't. But I'll have a stab at your questions.

1. What purpose do we think an uploaded image should serve?

Purposes vary, they can be representative, informative, creative, funny, satiric, surprising, clever, creative, cute etc etc.

2. Should there be a maximum of pictures per game entry?

No, as that would be as problematic as limiting the number of reviews. Some of the greatest pictures I've seen have been for games that already have loads of entries. You cannot predict by numbers when beauty appears.

3. Should there be a maximum / minimum file size / resolution for images?

No. For some games without images, and that have been without images from the beginning any resolution image is better than none.

4. Can we formulate a standard that Admins can adhere to?

No, because there is no standard formula to what people find representative, informative, creative, funny, satiric, surprising, clever, creative, cute etc etc. A community is rarely very standard.

5. Is paying GG for image uploads still a good idea?

Yes, because GG is not away from anybody. It's a friggin' fictional currency. Is thumbing a bad idea, yes sometimes because it gives incentive from pretty lame entries but it doesn't mean we should stop thumbing...


All valid points, but:

1.One purpose of this site is to collect information about board games. Setting up a site for people to store/share/show off their pictures / artistic bend is IMHO not a purpose of BGG and I think that should be reflected.

2.Make it mandatory for Admins to delete an old image with less "value" first, tereby raising the quality of content.

3. I agree, but in those cases the discretion of the Admin should alow the upload. The sub-standard picture can later be replaced (see Pt. 2.)

4. I agree standardization is tricky, but some guidelines should be possible.

5. It appears to me that image uploads are a cheap way to gain GG. Therefore a lot of pictures get uploaded simply to garner GG and not to improve game image content.

Thumping is a whole different "can of worms" and serves a different purpose from GG in this regard, so I will not go into it.

What are your suggestions for "cutting the chaff" or do you think there is no need to make the data on this site more manageable ?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 
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Steve Duff
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eisenphx wrote:
All valid points, but:

1.One purpose of this site is to collect information about board games. Setting up a site for people to store/share/show off their pictures / artistic bend is IMHO not a purpose of BGG and I think that should be reflected.

2.Make it mandatory for Admins to delete an old image with less "value" first, tereby raising the quality of content.

3. I agree, but in those cases the discretion of the Admin should alow the upload. The sub-standard picture can later be replaced (see Pt. 2.)

4. I agree standardization is tricky, but some guidelines should be possible.

5. It appears to me that image uploads are a cheap way to gain GG. Therefore a lot of pictures get uploaded simply to garner GG and not to improve game image content.

Thumping is a whole different "can of worms" and serves a different purpose from GG in this regard, so I will not go into it.

What are your suggestions for "cutting the chaff" or do you think there is no need to make the data on this site more manageable ?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!


All of this is "in your opinion". Others have different opinions. No opinion on this is right or wrong.

BGG is simply different things to different people.
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Frank Eisenhauer
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
eisenphx wrote:
All valid points, but:

1.One purpose of this site is to collect information about board games. Setting up a site for people to store/share/show off their pictures / artistic bend is IMHO not a purpose of BGG and I think that should be reflected.

2.Make it mandatory for Admins to delete an old image with less "value" first, tereby raising the quality of content.

3. I agree, but in those cases the discretion of the Admin should alow the upload. The sub-standard picture can later be replaced (see Pt. 2.)

4. I agree standardization is tricky, but some guidelines should be possible.

5. It appears to me that image uploads are a cheap way to gain GG. Therefore a lot of pictures get uploaded simply to garner GG and not to improve game image content.

Thumping is a whole different "can of worms" and serves a different purpose from GG in this regard, so I will not go into it.

What are your suggestions for "cutting the chaff" or do you think there is no need to make the data on this site more manageable ?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!


All of this is "in your opinion". Others have different opinions. No opinion on this is right or wrong.

BGG is simply different things to different people.


Correct!
The purpose of this post is to define a common demeanor regarding image uploads.
Every opinion is valid, what is yours? Any suggestions regarding the points I raised? Any new points?
 
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Nico Solitander
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eisenphx wrote:


All valid points, but:

1.One purpose of this site is to collect information about board games. Setting up a site for people to store/share/show off their pictures / artistic bend is IMHO not a purpose of BGG and I think that should be reflected.


Yah, you know as I see it it's a community so it's not really a cemented understanding that does not change over time that it's only about collecting information about board games and displaying such clinically and objectively. I know there's a lot of gamers around here who work with computers and numbers who'd like there to be one way, it's either that or that, and one rule to override them all. But that's the difference between man and machine. Man is fickle and change over time, as does his community norms.

What is stated about the site in it's what we can call grund norm, explicitly is that "BoardGameGeek is a website dedicated to the subject of physical board games. The site provides an extensive database of boardgames as well as an active community of users who discuss, argue, buy, sell, trade and play board games. The database contains over 30,000 board games and each game has its own Game entry which gives information about a game, user ratings, forums for discussion and a great deal more"


and the the norm on what kind of images are valued it says

" * Game - Images where the focus is on the game, the box, and/or unaltered components; * People - Images where people are prominently featured with the game; * Creative - Images of the game that contain creative elements such as modified components or fun situations.


So you know, as I see it it's pretty open for us to decide (after all we as a community produce content) as a group, self-governing. The admins just look after that some basic rules of the community is followed, and those rules are pretty simple and few and far between. And it does not say anywhere that people should not share their artistic bend, the best reviews and images do just that, at least the ones I value the most.

eisenphx wrote:

2.Make it mandatory for Admins to delete an old image with less "value" first, tereby raising the quality of content.


Yeah, so again it's this variable of value of an image. That's not easily defined or measured. I'm an economist and as I see it there's no market that decides the value. It's like art, what is considered creative or not - the value or non-value is not decided by the curator, but by the community. Less value for some is more for other. We have seen this time and time again, creative shots and people shots are a case of point half of the community find them useless and uniformative, half the community loves them. We have yet to hear from the guy running the site that the amount of pictures is becoming a problem of bandwidth, it's mostly in people's head.

eisenphx wrote:

4. I agree standardization is tricky, but some guidelines should be possible.


Again there no guideline any one can write about what is a valuable picture of a community of god knows how many. It's like writing a guideline of whqat should be considered beautiful.

eisenphx wrote:

5. It appears to me that image uploads are a cheap way to gain GG. Therefore a lot of pictures get uploaded simply to garner GG and not to improve game image content.


Hey, I'd rather have people being paid imagined currency for taking time to snap some shots rather than paying them real currency for the time they should have used fixing my plumbing or teaching my kids...

eisenphx wrote:

What are your suggestions for "cutting the chaff" or do you think there is no need to make the data on this site more manageable ?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!


Increased search functions, more individual ways of managing what you see etc. does the trick and I guess that's what these guys are doing with the improvements they put out rather than deleting what or what not be valuable or non-valuable content.
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Mark Slater
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Judging by the thread title, I thought it was some sort of Andy Warhol inspired picture.
 
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eisenphx wrote:
1.One purpose of this site is to collect information about board games. Setting up a site for people to store/share/show off their pictures / artistic bend is IMHO not a purpose of BGG and I think that should be reflected.


Then why have a microbadge saying you're an Apple User? It does nothing to add to someone's understanding of a game.

Point being, that maybe those "extras" that you enjoy or take for granted could be seen as "unnecessary" by someone else. I happen to like artistic photos (and microbadges).

If artistic photos were banned, I could just host them on Photobucket and insert them into my session reports and posts.
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Frank Eisenhauer
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indigopotter wrote:
eisenphx wrote:
1.One purpose of this site is to collect information about board games. Setting up a site for people to store/share/show off their pictures / artistic bend is IMHO not a purpose of BGG and I think that should be reflected.


Then why have a microbadge saying you're an Apple User? It does nothing to add to someone's understanding of a game.

Point being, that maybe those "extras" that you enjoy or take for granted could be seen as "unnecessary" by someone else. I happen to like artistic photos (and microbadges).

If artistic photos were banned, I could just host them on Photobucket and insert them into my session reports and posts.


The Apple microbadge tells you something about me, the user and might help you to determine what makes me tick, which in turn might help you to assess a review or session report I wrote about a game.
I like artistic photos as well, but sometimes I perceive there to be too many in a game entry in relation to informative images of that game. That is indeed highly subjective and others might not feel that way.
I am not suggesting to have creative images be banned nor am I suggesting to turn BGG into something clinical.
My motivation is simple: Discuss how to make the use of images on this site the most effective in terms of usage and data storage.
 
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