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Subject: Reaction Card Idea rss

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J
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A friend of mine told me about a card Idea, or at least part of it. Only thing is I don't know if he made it up or read it somewhere so if its old news sorry.

Cost: Probably 3 since it's better than the moat.

Name: No Idea, I'm not very creative.

Action: Also don't know, So sue me.

Reaction: When an attack card is played (but before the attack hits) Draw the top 2 cards from your deck and replace them with any 2 cards from your hand.
 
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Yaron Racah
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That's quite beautiful, really.
It's an effect that's nice on its own, but subtly and incidentally takes the sting out of every existing attack except the Witch.
 
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Chris F.
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It is a rather elegant mechanic, though you just get the cards you put back next round. I can see it being particularly useful against militia.

I have to disagree that it's better than Moat, though, as it has no function except when played as a reaction. (Sorry, missed that "Action: I don't know" bit) I'd say either lower the cost or add a non-reactionary function.
 
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David desJardins
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fiddlerjones wrote:
it has no function except when played as a reaction.


I don't think that's what "Action: I don't know" means.
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Sean McCarthy
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You know, that ability would make an interesting non-reactionary ability too...
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J
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Like I said I'm not creative enough for a name or to come up with an ability though I am open to suggestions.

Your right about it taking the sting out of all attacks cept for the witch. I mean theifs even become helpful since you can probably grantee to trash a copper and chuck useless cards.

The thing most people forget about witches is unlike the moat which stops doing anything when the curses are gone this card would still activate when people play witches afterwords so though it doesn't help with the curses you still gain a benefit the moat doesn't give..
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Ryan Diel
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How about portcullis or draw bridge as a name?

action
draw 3 discard 2?
 
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tim
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It's to confusing and how can you talk about its cost or relative value if you don't know what it's action is? This draw 2 replace cards in your hand thing is proposed as the reaction, do you alternatively get to do it as the action?
 
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J
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Okay forget the cost. I was throwing it out there as a reaction Idea. It's hard to come up with an action that's fair and goes with the theme.

Any way the main reason I thought it was better than the moat is because in an attack heavy game if you think that no more or very few more attacks are coming then you can chose to place it on the top of your deck so that you have it for the next time around.
 
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Greg Jones
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The action could be the same thing as the reaction.
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Kirkwb
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Guarded Vault

Action - Reaction

+2 Cards
__________

When another player plays an Attack Card, you may discard Guarded Vault and put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, Draw 3 cards at the end of the Attacking players turn.

Cost 2

 
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J
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kirkwb wrote:
Guarded Vault

Action - Reaction

+2 Cards
__________

When another player plays an Attack Card, you may discard Guarded Vault and put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, Draw 3 cards at the end of the Attacking players turn.

Cost 2

Thanks for trying but this makes the card fairly bad, especially compared to the moat. I mean basically it's a moat that makes you weaker to certain attacks and can only be used once before exchanging it with another card so multiple attacks from different opponents can still get you.

Name: Watch Tower
Action: Draw 3/4 cards from your deck. Then place 3/4 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
Reaction: Draw 2 cards from your deck. Then place 2 of your choice on the top of the deck.
Cost 3

I thought the action should be more cards since otherwise after certain attacks you really don't gain any new information or much benifit. I wasn't sure if making it 4 cards was too powerful. Basically unless you draw all really good cards you'll be having 1 good turn and one bad turn and since you don't draw any cards it chains very badly.
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Kirkwb
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Well, it makes it different than Moat, it doesn't neccesarrily make it bad. Bad is a relative thing, the card I proposed is good against some attacks, bad against others. Moat is bad in boards with no Attacks compared to other card drawers.

Honestly I can't tell what your intentions are for your card idea, so my interpretation was what I thought you were going for. Is your idea a reveal from your hand reaction, or does it get discarded when you play it? You need to specify everything in your text:

"Reaction: Draw 2 cards from your deck. Then place 2 of your choice on the top of the deck."

So far, that's only good against Bureaucrat... unless you have 3 VP cards in your 6 (or 7 if it's reveal) cards. And it's still no help against Militia.


 
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David desJardins
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kirkwb wrote:
"Reaction: Draw 2 cards from your deck. Then place 2 of your choice on the top of the deck."

So far, that's only good against Bureaucrat... unless you have 3 VP cards in your 6 (or 7 if it's reveal) cards. And it's still no help against Militia.


Huh? What he describes seems quite useful against Thief and Militia and Bureaucrat and Spy. I.e., all of the attacks except Witch.
 
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J
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The way your card had it you essentially hide cards then draw them back but ultimately lose the reaction card so you're still vulnerable to future attacks. Unless a theif or a spy was played you esentually exchanged the reaction card for the top card on your deck (before the attack was played) so you were protected from 1 attack and exchanged a card.

A moat would protect you from all attacks and then could use it's regular action to draw the top 2 cards which by comparison is much better.

The way I have it currently is you can hide/store cards for attacks like the bureaucrat/militia softening or even possibly eliminating their attack.

You can rig your deck to stop attacks like the spy or the thief which means the spy will almost always hit either a copper or a point card. A thief will most likely always either trashes one of your coppers or discards point cards. The only case where you would lose anything better than that you would have to have 7 cards with no points or coppers and that would be a pretty sweet hand so boo-hoo one attack goes through.

Finally you still get a little benefit against witches even when the curses run out.
 
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Kirkwb
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DaviddesJ wrote:
kirkwb wrote:
"Reaction: Draw 2 cards from your deck. Then place 2 of your choice on the top of the deck."

So far, that's only good against Bureaucrat... unless you have 3 VP cards in your 6 (or 7 if it's reveal) cards. And it's still no help against Militia.


Huh? What he describes seems quite useful against Thief and Militia and Bureaucrat and Spy. I.e., all of the attacks except Witch.


Assuming his reaction is Reveal to play so it stays in hand (that still isn't clarified) it's timing I was playing with to improve it.

I play Militia, in reaction he plays Watch Tower. He draws 2 cards (7 in hand now), puts two on top of his deck (back to 5) and now has to resolve Militia and discard down to 3. You got to pick two cards to discard, but I was trying to improve it where you draw the draw 2 you saved back at EoT putting you back to 5 cards (whether it's a reval or draw 3 to replace itself).

If he plays Watch Tower against Bureaucrat, he draws 2 (7 cards in hand now) puts 2 on top, it works if he only had 2 VP card in the 7 cards. If he has 2 VP cards in hand and draws 1 more in the 2 off Watchtower 1 VP will stay in hand which will also get put on top by Bureaucrat.

it's useful but dependant on situation against most cards, I was just playing with timing to make it better.




 
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Kirkwb
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allstar64 wrote:
The way your card had it you essentially hide cards then draw them back but ultimately lose the reaction card so you're still vulnerable to future attacks. Unless a theif or a spy was played you esentually exchanged the reaction card for the top card on your deck (before the attack was played) so you were protected from 1 attack and exchanged a card.

A moat would protect you from all attacks and then could use it's regular action to draw the top 2 cards which by comparison is much better.

The way I have it currently is you can hide/store cards for attacks like the bureaucrat/militia softening or even possibly eliminating their attack.

You can rig your deck to stop attacks like the spy or the thief which means the spy will almost always hit either a copper or a point card. A thief will most likely always either trashes one of your coppers or discards point cards. The only case where you would lose anything better than that you would have to have 7 cards with no points or coppers and that would be a pretty sweet hand so boo-hoo one attack goes through.

Finally you still get a little benefit against witches even when the curses run out.


Cool, but is your card a reaction card that you reveal like Moat to play? That's where I'm derailed, is everyone assuming reaction cards will always be Reveal to do the Reaction?


 
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David desJardins
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kirkwb wrote:
it's useful but dependant on situation against most cards, I was just playing with timing to make it better.


In other words, when you said, "And it's still no help against Militia," you didn't actually mean it?
 
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Kirkwb
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DaviddesJ wrote:
kirkwb wrote:
it's useful but dependant on situation against most cards, I was just playing with timing to make it better.


In other words, when you said, "And it's still no help against Militia," you didn't actually mean it?


I'll concede you get to pimp your hand, but you're still dropping to 3 cards. So it's some help but not great.
 
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J
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By reaction I mean it's like the moat. Someone attacks, you flash it, then you make the exchange. Then the attack happens as normal but with the cards you picked in your hand and on top of the deck.

If someone attacks again you flash it again (assuming you kept it and didn't put it on top of your deck) and the process repeats. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer about this but I thought that people would understand what I meant when I said a reaction card. I concede that I should not have a assumed this cause we have no guarantee that all reaction cards will work like this.

I was just trying to think of a new defense card that wasn't identical to the moat. It has the advantage the moat doesn't have of being able to "pimp your hand" on all attacks and even use certain attacks to your advantage. It's disadvantage is that although you have a high chance of it being useful it doesn't guarantee 100% protection like the moat.

Your main argument is that it isn't as effective against the Militia and people have conceded it. Just because it isn't as great against the Militia doesn't mean its a bad card.
 
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Kirkwb
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No worries, but when I was trying to figure out what you were going for, I was trying to think of a way to change the timing on the draw cards part to make it a little better against Militia as well as the others. Whether it was a "Moat-like reveal" or not wasn't my initial point, but obviously having to Play it or Discard it instead of revealing is of course more weak.

But my new point after you dismissed the idea as weak was that I thought you wanted it to be discarded, since it didn't have the same wording as Moat.

Reactions are only defined by the rules (so far) as:

"...Reaction cards are an exception to this rule as they can
be used at other times."

Moat's reveal to React is specific to that Reaction since it's written on that card.


 
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J
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I appreciate that you were trying to make it better against militias but as a defense card discarding it isn't a good idea since multiple people can play attack cards.

I think that I and other people were thinking all reaction cards would be in response to attacks but your right again that this might not necessarily be the case. All defense reaction cards though should be flash to activate just by nature of being too weak vs multiple attacks, you know unless its purpose is not to defend against the attacker. For example a card that lets you react to any attack with an identical attack.
 
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Hubert Orlik-Grzesik
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Warlord

Action: Draw 2 cards. Put any (1 or 2) (2) on top of drawing deck.
Reaction: Same.
Cost: (3) (2)



I think I like the first variant. Warlord (General? Or perhaps Map room?), because it allows you to plan your tactics ahead.

 
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Jonas Milke
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I don't want to open a new thread, so I write my card idea here:


Seer (3)

+2 Actions

When an opponent buys a green card you may play the Seer.The opponent has to gain a curse card.
 
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David desJardins
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Spielfrosch wrote:
I don't want to open a new thread, so I write my card idea here:


Seer (3)

+2 Actions

When an opponent buys a green card you may play the Seer.The opponent has to gain a curse card.


I'm sure that Donald isn't going to add this sort of "take that" card to the game. Of course you can always create any variant you want, but attacks (whether or not by that name) that allow you to target specific other players are not in the spirit of Dominion.
 
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