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Subject: Ottoman double victory/defeat in Buda rss

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Martí Cabré

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This is a strange situation. wow

Ottoman player has just assaulted Belgrade.
In the same impulse he moves to Mohacs, leaves a cav there and moves to Buda with a big army and Suleiman, where a field battle takes place. He loses (2 hits to 3, horrible dice).

So Ottoman has to retreat but Mohacs is still Hungarian. Is his entire army destroyed and Suleiman captured? By whom?

Also, the Hungarian army loses 2 regs in Buda so Hungary is absorbed by Hapsburgs and Ottomans win the war. Who controls Buda?

Which is the step-by-step procedure to handle this situation?

Thanks! meeple
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Ed Beach
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You should first follow the Field Battle procedure to its conclusion.

Once that is over, if the conditions for Hungarian surrender apply, use the Procedure in that section of the rules and follow it to its conclusion.

You will see that:
-- the entire Ottoman force is eliminated (no place to retreat)
-- Buda will end up under Hapsburg control (since there will be no Ottoman unit in Buda when Hungary surrenders)

Suleiman's situation is strange, and one I'm not sure is covered in the rules or any current errata. Neutrals can not capture leaders. That's why in the siege rules attacking leaders can never be captured (since it does occasionally occur that a leader's army is wiped out sieging a minor). But I don't think the rules account for a leader's force being wiped out in Field Battle against a minor (for one thing, it usually can only happen here in Buda). In this rare case, you should follow the Assault procedure for when a leader's force is wiped out. There it says:

"If all attacking land units are eliminated, surviving attacking army leaders are placed in the nearest fortified space or their capital as described in Step 3 of the Peace Segment Procedure (Section 9.3)."

Does anyone ever remember seeing this case before or whether or not I have ruled on it?
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Martí Cabré

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Thanks, Ed!

We'll follow this procedure and apply the Assault procedure for Suleiman's situation.

This game has had a peculiar start: aside from the Ottoman's bad luck, England has allied itself with Scotland using a Marriage so there is no typical TOBBS (Turn One British Blood Spilling).
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Greg Forster
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Wowzers. That Ottoman has got to learn to be more cautious.

Another rule for the next edition of Frequently Misplayed Rules - even aside from this unusual situation, I hadn't known that attacking leaders can't be captured in an assault. I'm going to start a thread to keep track of things I need to add.
 
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Spencer Beni
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Ed Beach wrote:
You should first follow the Field Battle procedure to its conclusion.

Once that is over, if the conditions for Hungarian surrender apply, use the Procedure in that section of the rules and follow it to its conclusion.

You will see that:
-- the entire Ottoman force is eliminated (no place to retreat)
-- Buda will end up under Hapsburg control (since there will be no Ottoman unit in Buda when Hungary surrenders)

Suleiman's situation is strange, and one I'm not sure is covered in the rules or any current errata. Neutrals can not capture leaders. That's why in the siege rules attacking leaders can never be captured (since it does occasionally occur that a leader's army is wiped out sieging a minor). But I don't think the rules account for a leader's force being wiped out in Field Battle against a minor (for one thing, it usually can only happen here in Buda). In this rare case, you should follow the Assault procedure for when a leader's force is wiped out. There it says:

"If all attacking land units are eliminated, surviving attacking army leaders are placed in the nearest fortified space or their capital as described in Step 3 of the Peace Segment Procedure (Section 9.3)."

Does anyone ever remember seeing this case before or whether or not I have ruled on it?


Yes Ed. The FAQ does specifically address a power's army being wiped out by a minor. In fact you even point out it will usually only happen in Buda or Edinburgh if the Scotts have been reinforced. See FAQ 14, second question.
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