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StarCraft: The Board Game – Brood War Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Gold Planets? No way... God Planets? rss

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magic gecko
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Melbin Oz
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I place my starting base on a Gold world's gold province.

I place Gold Build, then Build ontop, then Build ontop (and a Mobilise on my neighbouring world where I have a transport.)


I resolve a Build as a gold, and build a Module
I resolve a Build as a gold.
I resolve a Gold Build.


This is so obviously Freakin' Overpowered, it has to be wrong.
Could someone please tell me why it doesn't work?
Please explicitly state rules.


I know this is wrong.
I can't prove it.


[If it aint wrong, is there a default red human set up? But SURELY it is wrong]
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EMELT
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Keep in mind there is only one planet with a gold province or strategic area (hereafter refered to as 'SA') that is capable of having ground units on it. This also means it is the only one that can have a base on the strategic area. Also note that this planet doesn't have any resources on it. Only 2 CPs in an air only area, and the SA in a ground only area.

The other 2 planets that have SAs have their SAs in an air only area. So, a base can't be placed there and you would need to have air units there to claim the SA advantage.

That being said, it is nice to be able to use the SAs.

You may also want to note that in your example, you wouldn't even need to build the gold module in your first build as we can place gold orders without having the module built. If it is on a planet where you control a SA when you come to execute the gold order, you can even execute it instead of drawing an event card, even if you have no R&D modules. So you could have effectively 3 gold build orders without even building an R&D module if you really wanted.

Now if you also wanted to have a gold mobilize order on that neighbouring planet that you have a transport to, then you would need to build a gold module...
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Guy Srinivasan
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We read the rules differently. I went back to check, and it seems they're ambiguous. In our reading, if you resolve a normal order on a strategic area, you may resolve it as if it were a special order placed without the benefit of a strategic area, requiring a module to actually work - i.e. put the token in your special order pool. Only if you resolve an actual special order token on a strategic area do you get to put the token back into your pile of unused tokens rather than into the "how many special orders have I executed this turn" pool.

Quote:
When a player controls one of these areas, he may treat all
order tokens that he executes on the same planet as if they
were special order tokens. In addition, all special orders he
executes on the planet are not placed in his special order
pool, and are instead returned to his pile of unused order
tokens. This allows a player to execute special orders on the
planet without them counting towards the limit provided by
his Research and Development modules.


As you can see, it would be quite easy to argue vehemently either for your reading or for mine being "clearly what the rules state!", so maybe we need an answer from FFG on this one? Or can someone find an example that clears it up? The example just after this block of text in the rules doesn't say anything about where the token ended up.
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Dave J McWeasely
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Why don't we not bother FFG and just argue vehemently?
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Cesar Pim
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1. I find strategic areas nice but not SO overpowering, for the reasons that EMELT (Mark T) explained.

2. I agree that the rules are not as clear as they could be, but I believe Guy Srinivasan's (GreedyAlgorithm's) interpretation is wrong for the following reason: The rules say "may treat all order tokens that he executes on the same planet as if they were special order tokens". Notice that here it is talking about tokens, i.e., the actual objects. Then it says "all special orders he executes on the planet are not placed in his special order pool". Now it is not talking about the tokens but rather about the special orders themselves, and this includes those that arise from special tokens and from normal tokens (because of previous sentence).

Finally, I wish to say that I came to notice, here in these forums, that often people find out something and they say "ah, this is too powerful", "ah, this is too powerful too", "ah, another thing that it's too powerful". Well yes, StarCraft has many many things that are too powerful, so when you put all those things together, there is some sort of balance because every player has access to very powerful tactics. And in the end, the winner is the one that best uses one or more of those powerful strategies.

Cheers!
Cesar

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Guy Srinivasan
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Okay, I'm all for arguing vehemently.

CesarPim wrote:
Notice that here it is talking about tokens, i.e., the actual objects. Then it says "all special orders he executes on the planet are not placed in his special order pool". Now it is not talking about the tokens but rather about the special orders themselves


Please explain how you put "the special orders themselves", not the tokens, into your special order pool, which is a little boxed area at the top of your race's card.
 
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Mike Thompson
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But if you put the normal order tokens into the special order pool, you aren't treating them like special order tokens....because special order tokens would be returned to the unused order pool.

Reading it as written, the OP is correct. GreedyAlgorithm's interpretation seems a more reasonable rule set, but one that would need to be better written in the rules than what we have.
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EMELT
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Here is a set of questions that I had sent in to the designer a while back for the group I play with. I have placed his answers in bold below each question:

Questions: These all relate to the Strategic Area. Consider, if a player owned a strategic area for all the times they executed their orders that they had placed on that planet:

1. In general would there be restrictions on any of the orders he had placed there that would be dependent on the number of research modules he possessed at the time of execution of each order.

1) As long as he controls a strategic area on the planet he executes it on, R&D modules do not matter.

2. Would there be any restriction to how many special orders (refering to gold order tokens specifically, and not the standard order tokens as special orders) that could be executed (even if no R&D modules were built, or if there was no longer any room in the special order pool for more special order executions)? We realize that they wouldn't count towards the limit of the special order pool, but by the reading of the rules (on page 5 of the Broodwar rules) it appears as if you would need to have the capacity left over for at least one special order to be able to execute a gold order token (even on a planet where you control a strategic area).

2) No. He would also not need any space in his special order pool in order to execute them (see #3).

3. Could someone with no R&D modules execute gold order tokens (as opposed to standard order tokens) on a planet where they contolled a strategic area?

3) Yes.

4. Would you be able to execute all regular and special orders of the same function (Mobilize, Build, or Research) effectively getting 3 (or more) special orders of the same function occuring at that planet even if you didn't have an R&D module? The concern here is the whether there should be a difference in power between someone who owns an R&D module and control of a strategic area vs someone who just has control of a strategic area.

4) Yes. When you control a strategic area on a planet and execute a normal order, it's ability is exactly the same as a special order. A player that controls a strategic area on a planet is the same power level (on that planet) as a player that controls a strategic area AND has an R&D module.

Hope you guys find this usefull!

And thanks again to Corey as allways for all his help.
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Cesar Pim
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GreedyAlgorithm wrote:
Okay, I'm all for arguing vehemently.
Please explain how you put "the special orders themselves", not the tokens, into your special order pool, which is a little boxed area at the top of your race's card.


You're right, the sentence is not well constructed. But according to the answers that EMELT (Mark T) obtained from them, they did mean what I was thinking, i.e., when they say "all special orders he executes on the planet are not placed in his special order pool" they are INCLUDING the normal order tokens that are now being referred to also as SPECIAL, in this sentence (because of the previous sentence).

But it should have been better written, not to generate this kind of confusion...
 
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Stan Noordman
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magic gecko wrote:
I place my starting base on a Gold world's gold province.

I place Gold Build, then Build ontop, then Build ontop (and a Mobilise on my neighbouring world where I have a transport.)


I resolve a Build as a gold, and build a Module
I resolve a Build as a gold.
I resolve a Gold Build.


This is so obviously Freakin' Overpowered, it has to be wrong.
Could someone please tell me why it doesn't work?
Please explicitly state rules.


I know this is wrong.
I can't prove it.


[If it aint wrong, is there a default red human set up? But SURELY it is wrong]


I have no idea what's overpowered on this?

You have no resources.
You can't build any units (always start with 4, also sometimes 5 so you wouldn't even get all your units).
You can't be to be attacked.
You give the opponent, who has more resources, more time to build and expand.
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Ger Lam
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magic gecko wrote:
...
I resolve a Build as a gold, and build a Module
I resolve a Build as a gold.
I resolve a Gold Build.


This is so obviously Freakin' Overpowered, it has to be wrong.
...


how is that overpowered? as was mentioned, there is only one gold planet with a ground gold territory, which provides no resources.
even IF you could do that on a normal planet, thats a 3 resource bonus, for NOT expanding on that turn(that is, no resource cards from any other planets). And since ground territory on those planets is severely limited, you can't spam huge amounts of units, either.(besides the limitation/build).
The ONLY way i can see this as mildly inconveniencing is with raynors ability to convert unused workers into tokens, allowing him to use 9 workers on a "no-resource"-planet. even so, i would probably choose the other planet as home base and expand there.
In my opinion, the biggest bonus for gold territory planets is for research orders...taking them into hand, or for permanent research, getting 2 event cards. I tend to produce where i need troops, so saving two resources(since one gold build will take place anyway) and wasting a mobilize to get them where i need them is not worth it to me. I expected those gold territorys to be more "dominating" in regards to strategies, but up to now, i was not too impressed. They are important, no question, but by far not as important as other aspects(e.g. which leadership card you take. Had a nasty win with glimpsing the future yesterday by secluding myself with 4 CP and connecting all other players homeworlds...). In total, i think it's a nice touch, but by far not "godlike"...
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Golden Order Regions are the most critical regions in the game, except for Mineral or Gas Regions. And also obviously Conquest Point Regions. Otherwise they're at the top of my list.

Its too bad Moria didn't have the orbital platform be a Golden Order Region, with also a 2-conquest point on the surface to fight over. That would have been cool. Now that would be a promotional world I'd actually bother to get.

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Ger Lam
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MrWeasely wrote:
Golden Order Regions are the most critical regions in the game, except for Mineral or Gas Regions. And also obviously Conquest Point Regions. Otherwise they're at the top of my list.


lol...nice one

besides that, yep, moria would've been fun that way.
Actually when we first played, we didn't bother to check the manual and played it in a way that you needed a transport to go to the orbital region.
In memory of that, it could be a nice variation to have moria have a gold order region instead of a conquest point, but you'd need a transport to go there.

Actually never quite understood why they didn't use that concept. Too complicated maybe? I'd like defense in depth. Having regions on a planet that you can't reach unless you take other regions first.(To take the underground tunnels only reachable by ground units, first you need to take one of the two surface areas....to get to the moon, you need a transport dedicated to that...to take the single surface spot on the space station, first you need to take the space area...that is, area's "blocking" access to other areas or prerequisites. heck, if i have 3 battlecruisers orbiting avernus station, you are NOT going to land reavers there without sending air support, those transports are going DOWN. oh well. would've been a fun variant.)
 
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magic gecko
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Melbin Oz
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Hello World.

Yes, Gold Planets are hideously overpowered, when you play the rules wrong.


Bases Can Not Be Placed In Space Zones



Things you learn.
Seems reasonable.
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