Aaron Sibley
United Kingdom
Ramsgate
Kent
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Group activation costs -
Three used German units split over two hexes adjacent to each other, one Squad in one hex and a Squad and LMG in another. Another German LMG unit moves into the hex with just a squad, thereby having 2 units in each hex. The Activated LMG unit wants to fire on a Soviet unit 6 hexes away. The activated LMG wants to use the other used units to form a fire group. How much CAPs does it cost the German player?
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Michael Klein
Germany
Schoenaich
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According to the original rules that come with the game, it always costs 1 CAP to do a group action if not all units are in the same hex, independant of how many units you use or how many hexes they are distributed over.
But in the latest rules (which you can download here or on the Academy Games homepage), this rule has been removed. Now it does not cost any CAP to do group actiony any more, even if not all units are in the same hex.
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Chris Stimpson
United States
Westminster
Colorado
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Michael is right, and Aaron - if you haven't gone to the CoH web site to download the Feb 09 rules, you should do so. Clears up lots of stuff and incorporates much of the discussion on this board for the last few months. Isn't science wonderful?
But this thread brings up an issue I'm not 100% sure of. New rule 9.1 says you can pick up new units and add them to the group after you've activated the first unit. But rule 9.0 says units can only do group actions if they start in the same or adjacent hexes. So the implication (to me) is that your activated unit would have to start adjacent if it were to "pick up" the other unit and make a group with it. (The examples in rule 9.4 seem to bear this out). To me, this made sense, and justified the original use of CAPs for adjacent units in groups (it represents the command function needed to get units working together).
So to get back to Aaron's example, that activated unit must have started its movement two hexes away from the hex containing the two units; I just don't know whether you can add them to the group. (Note, the second example in rule 9.4 would seem to suggest you can, so I'm down to tossing a coin....)
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Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
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Let's put those rule here so that they can be discussed fully:
Quote: 9.0 Group Actions
Several units may group any action, including moving, firing, and rallying.
Group actions may be taken by:
• Unused units grouping their activations.
• Unused units grouping opportunity actions.
• Used, unused, or activated units grouping command actions.
• Used, unused, or activated units grouping the results of an action card.
Units may execute group actions if they begin the action set up in the same or adjacent hexes.
An opponent may react to a group action only once and only after all participating units have completed the group action.
9.1 Group Activations
Multiple unused units may group their activations to take group or separate actions, but must share just one group pool of 7APs (the points pool may vary if the variable APs option 3.01 is used). Units that group activations may execute any combination of actions such as group movement (9.11), forming a fire group (9.12), group rallying, transporting units (19.0), and so on.
An activated unit can add other units to a group after it has already been activated. This allows you to pick up new units and add them to the group as necessary.
Ex: The active Soviet player activates a rile unit. He moves the rifle one hex forward onto a friendly SMG unit. There, he adds the SMG to the group before they group fire.
If a unit that has grouped its activation with others decides to take a separate action, it still uses up APs from the same limited AP group pool.
Each separate action still counts as an action that an opponent can react to.
At the end of an activation, all participating group units are marked as used.
9.12 Group Firing
Units in the same or adjacent hexes may group fire to increase their firepower. To group fire, two or more units designate one unit as the fire leader. The group pays only the firing cost of the fire leader. Each supporting unit increases the FP of the fire leader by 1FP.
To clear up Chris's confusion, you can bring a lone unit into a group and combine into a group action. Remember that each move is an action so all you have to do is begin your action adjacent to another ally. So you can activate a unit, take 2 move actions, combine with additional units, take a third group move action and then take a group fire action -- as long as all of the grouped units are adjacent when taking the group action and the AP are all drawn from the same pool.
To Aaron's question, you would have to spend CAPs and CAPs only to carry out a group fire action that includes any spent units. Your LMG would have spent X AP moving into the adjacent hex and then would have to spend 2 CAPs to take a group fire action. Depending on if you're using the most recent rules or the printed rules, you may need to spend one additional CAP to group with units in adjacent hexes. After the group fire you can choose to continue spending AP with the active unit or spend more CAPs to act as a group.
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Chris Stimpson
United States
Westminster
Colorado
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Bob:
Thank you. You're right to point out that you have to be adjacent at the beginning of an ACTION.
I was reading it as being adjacent at the beginning of a TURN!
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