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Subject: Variant :: Québec-Canada rss

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Carl Dumont-R.
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This variant now has an official boardgame fan-expansion page !!

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/135440/les-avent...

Thanks for all the support !!
Carl.

===================

(Updated 2012 version)

Ok, c'est prêt !! Joyeux Noël tout le monde!!!
Voici tout ce dont vous avez besoin pour jouer à cette édition des Aventuriers du Rail, absolument magnifique !!

Amusez-vous bien !!

(J'ai envoyé une demande de création d'un jeu dans BGG, en espérant que le tout soit accepté et qu'on puisse uploader nos photos de jeux!)

##############

Ok, it's ready !! Merry Christmas everybody!!!
Here's all you need to play this absolutely gorgeous TTR Edition !!

Have fun !!

(I've sent a new Board Game creation to BGG, I hope everything's fine so we can upload our gameplays!)

..........

Pictures were removed for heavy loading..
Click on the fan-expansion page on top of this post for original pictures for print..


############################

Here's the final product..

I sent .pdf files of the original .psd to a professionnal printer shop in montréal..
The board was printed on a sticky vinyl that I places on cardboard and the cards were printed on Movie Poster material that I cut myself, and put in Hockey Cards sleeves, didn't glue them..

Pictures were removed for heavy loading..
Click on the fan-expansion page on top of this post for original pictures for print..


And yeah, there is a mistake.. :-/
Plattsburgh / Greenville counts for 7, wrote 8 on the card..
So yeah, there MAY be one or two more mistakes.. I hope not..

##############################

(Original 2009 post)

Hi everyone,

Since about a week now, I've been working on a Québec-Canada Ticket To Ride variant.. I've enlarged a bit the Québec territory to get some US and most of Eastern Canada. I've managed to recreat everything by myself.. Here's what it looks like:

http://www.uploadgeek.com/share-C10B_49C478B6.html

What's left to do is the scoring around the board and the Destination Cards.. OOOH BOY.. I seriously need help for those.. I REALLY don't know how this works.. How many points per small and big destination ?? I'm really lost on this..

So I'm calling for help..
I would really appreciate some help here..

Thanks!

////////////

Bonjour à tous,

Depuis maintenant près d'une semaine je travaille sur une version Québecoise des Aventuriers du Rail..

J'ai étendu un peu la carte pour une grande partie de l'est du Canada et un peu des États-Unis.. Côté visuel, j'ai tout recréé et voici ce que ça donne..

http://www.uploadgeek.com/share-C10B_49C478B6.html

Il me reste à créer les cartes destinations ainsi que le contour pour les points et quelques petits détails tels le pointage par rail.

Mais là, j'ai un sérieux BESOIN D'AIDE pour les cartes destinations.. Quelles destinations choisir? Mais surtout, QUELL POINTAGE associer à chacunes d'elles ?? Aucune idée.. Vraiment..

Si quelqu'un pouvait m'aider, j'apprécierais énormément..
Merci!
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Darryl Boone
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Xordok wrote:
What's left to do is the scoring around the board and the Destination Cards.. OOOH BOY.. I seriously need help for those.. I REALLY don't know how this works.. How many points per small and big destination ?? I'm really lost on this..


I seem to recall that in the original game, the points for destination cards equaled the fewest number of spaces you can use to connect those two cities. So Kingston/Quebec on your map would be worth 11 points.

I don't know about mix of small vs big destination tickets as I've only played the original game.

Hope that helps.
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Gareth Reynolds
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booned wrote:
I seem to recall that in the original game, the points for destination cards equaled the fewest number of spaces you can use to connect those two cities. So Kingston/Quebec on your map would be worth 11 points.

That is how the destination card points were determined, unless I've missed the exceptions. 1910 changed some of them for its cards, I don't know how many.
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Randall Bart
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As far as I know, the value is the minimum pip count between the cities on every TtR ticket in every TtR game. Can someone post a picture of a counterexample?
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Carl Brousseau
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Barticus88 wrote:
As far as I know, the value is the minimum pip count between the cities on every TtR ticket in every TtR game. Can someone post a picture of a counterexample?


That's true, except for errors that were made in the original game and fixed in 1910: SEA-NY was worth 22 but the shortest route takes 20 trains, LA-NY was changed from 21 to 20 for the same reason. Otherwise, number of trains needed = number of points.

OP: I'll get back to you with comments on your board and tickets.
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Randall Bart
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barneyg wrote:
That's true, except for errors that were made in the original game and fixed in 1910: SEA-NY was worth 22 but the shortest route takes 20 trains, LA-NY was changed from 21 to 20 for the same reason. Otherwise, number of trains needed = number of points.

I was unaware of those early errors. Thanx. Decades ago, I played a game which used the Rail Baron map, where we counted those distances on a regular basis, and it was very easy to miscount.
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Carl Brousseau
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Xordok wrote:
Hi everyone,

Since about a week now, I've been working on a Québec-Canada Ticket To Ride variant.. I've enlarged a bit the Québec territory to get some US and most of Eastern Canada. I've managed to recreat everything by myself.. Here's what it looks like:

http://www.uploadgeek.com/share-C10B_49C478B6.html

What's left to do is the scoring around the board and the Destination Cards.. OOOH BOY.. I seriously need help for those.. I REALLY don't know how this works.. How many points per small and big destination ?? I'm really lost on this..


Here's my .02$, as someone who's done this before (although with somewhat few comments so I think it's great that you can generate some interest)

1) A Quebec board already exists at the address below; I think yours is better looking (people underestimate the importance of the background map -- yours is simple which is very good IMHO, plus you have flags for city locations which is a great idea), but the other map is somewhat 'cleaner', see next comment.

http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~beaudoin/plateaux/2006/03/ladr-...

2) I believe you could rework the map to make it 'cleaner' on two fronts: (a) Rework the double routes. Even without the destination tickets so far, I can see you probably will have to add double routes on RDL-Edmunston, Quebec-Les Escoumins, Quebec-RDL to prevent them from being bottlenecks (unless that's what you're shooting for). On the other hand there are plenty of seemingly useless double routes on the fringes of the map (Anticosti-Iles de la Madeleine, Amos-Maniwaki, Kingston-Petawawa, Lewiston-St Andrews...) Another way to improve the map is (b) to add some connections to increase the number of choices available to players (it will also make destination ticket design easier). To me, missing segments would be Edmunston-Caraquet, Matane-Caraquet, Ottawa-Maniwaki, Amos-Roberval (or add Chibougamau and go through there?), Québec-Roberval.

3) Some people may complain that you have too many long routes, but that's OK with me.

4) The Gulf of St. Lawrence could be a good place to add ferries (as in TTR: Europe).

5) (minor point) Quebec-Jonquière-Baie Comeau requires 11 whites and nothing else, which is pretty tough; no one will ever take those two routes in the same game.

6) So far there are 357 tracks on your board, which is above the 306 from the original game. Either removing some of them, or increasing the number of available trains (for example by using the 3 spares to get to 48 per player) could be a good idea.

As far as tickets go, here are the rules for how I designed the two boards I did (links available by looking at recent threads, or send me a PM and I'll forward them to you). This is mostly based on the original game.

(a) Try to have tickets reaching every city and not overrepresent some cities. Your natural tendency here would likely be to have a bunch of tickets starting from Montreal or Québec, but this is sometimes a problem with LA in the original game and is a huge problem with Genève, Bern and Zurich in the Swiss extension. If your game has that problem people may just start to try and connect these cities even though they don't have them on their tickets.

(b) Try to have tickets whose shortest route does not overlap for a long period of time. For example on your map, I wouldn't put Amos - Québec (14 pts) and Amos-Jonquière (16 pts). However Amos-Jonquière and Amos-Granby would work just fine. Of course you can have a few of these (such as Winnipeg-Houston and Duluth-Houston in the original game), but you can keep them for routes that could otherwise seem unrewarding (such as Roberval-Granby and Roberval-Lachute).

(c) Have a good mix of long and short tickets, with diversity in east/west, north/south, northwest/southeast, northeast/southwest, etc. routes, especially with your map which is not very high but rather wide. Crazy tickets like Kingston - Iles-de-la-Madeleine (32 pts I believe) are fun to design but if you put too many of them, it'll become a game of who lucks out the most on overlapping long tickets. For a rough guide you can look at the ticket distribution from the base game and try to have a similar distribution, although your max value can go higher because of the shape of your map.

(d) While designing tickets, look at what the shortest route is on your map (this also gives you the number of points). You'll see rather quickly where the bottlenecks are and where there aren't enough tickets. This also goes back to point #2 above about reworking double routes.

Let me know how it works out. I'm a Québec native and somehow, the other Quebec map didn't do it for me so I'm interested to see how this one turns out, and I can help.
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Carl Dumont-R.
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Hi Carl, thank you very much for the input and comments !!
Greatly appreciated!

1) Yeah, I saw the previous Québec map and realy didn't like it.. So I wanted to create one myself..

2a) Yeah, I had (and still have) trouble making the double routes.. I wanted to have the same number of colors for each track sizes..


So if I make the double routes you suggested based on my "old" board, it would debalance the colors, but I guess it's not much of a problem.. That's why I added the double routes on some unsual places..

2b) New routes :
Edmunston-Caraquet (DONE)
Matane-Caraquet (DONE)
Ottawa-Maniwaki (DONE)
Amos-Roberval (DONE)
Amos-Chibougameau / Chibougameau-Roberval ... I like the fact that I have an 8 track. But I could add Chibougameau indeed and create smaller tracks.
Québec-Roberval (LOOKING INTO IT)

3) Yeah, but Québec is a big territory with real long routes, the route 40, 20, 10, 15, 132 ARE long... lol.. 'Could be hard to do better IMO..

4) Ferries, yep.. I was really thinking about that for some routes..

5) Québec-Jonquière in White.. Yeah, that was corrected in my updated and near finnished version..

6) I now have 346 vs 306.. We'll have to test it.. But yeah, the game would be tougher and finnish faster with those more tracks, but I have created 50 destinations.. Tell me what you think!



6a) Yeah, I managed to have every city have at least 1 destination.. But for the long destinations, I had to take more from the furthest ones..

6b) Yeah, hard to do.. but I think I managed to do something good on that side..

6c) I have the Maklin version, so I checked the destinations from it. It's pretty similar as for the small and big routes..

And finally, here's my new and updated board, and the cards designs..
No worries, I have much higher resolutions for future printing..
I had to make some changes when I added the numbers around the board, But I managed..








Note : I'll have to redo the cards with the new available tracks on the background..
 
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Carl Brousseau
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The new board looks great, and the cards are rather clean as well. I noticed that you modified the scoring scheme for tracks of length 4+ -- I'm not sure this is such a great idea given that the people who typically play extensions are people who are used to the basic game and know the standard scoring scheme very well, so if players move their markers themselves some of them may use the standard scheme while others will use yours.. Comments on what you posted:

2a) You want some balance in the total number of tracks (and distribution) of each color but where they are also matter. I noticed that in your new version, 5 out of 9 red segments (totaling 23 tracks out of 34) are on the contours of the map, and out of 9 segments, 7 are on double routes (I'm counting Roberval-Jonquière). To contrast, out of 8 white segments only 2 are on the contours, and only 2 of the white segments are double routes. I'm not exactly sure how that'd play out in an actual game..

2b) The new routes make sense. You can have Amos-Chibougamau and Amos-Roberval as well as the direct 8 if you want, kinda like LA-El Paso or LA-Phoenix-El Paso in the base game.

6) I'm not sure the game would really be tougher given that more tracks with as many trains per player means less potential blocking. Again, it depends on how many of the tracks are never used (such as the double routes on the contours)

The destinations look alright, and there's a good number of them which is great. By experience, you should double-check the point value of these with the final board (for example you added Halifax-Moncton in the last version so Halifax-Caraquet should be worth 9, not 10). And I don't have Marlkin, but I do have US and Europe. It seems that the average value of the tickets is about 12.5, which is higher than those 2 games (much higher than Europe). This will make for some higher scoring games, but on the other hand this means that luck in drawing overlapping tickets will play a greater role..

Keep up the good work!


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Randall Bart
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Xordok wrote:
Note : I'll have to redo the cards with the new available tracks on the background..

It's a nice touch, but that map on the cards is a time sink. Plan on making a few more map changes.
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Mike Sirois
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Nice looking map, looking forward to play it.

I have played the other Quebec's map a few times and really enjoyed it. I think it was the first to include a 9-long route. It is also very intense, feels like Nordic Countries but with 4-5 players.

I am sure yours will be fun to play as well. I think you have a good approach for development and playtesting will make it even better.

Good luck!
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Carl Dumont-R.
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All right !!
I've done the suggested modifications..
Tell me what you think !!

( I will have to redo and recheck destinations though! )

============

Corrected the points per tracks.
Changed and removed a lot of double roads.
I tried to move some colors, but it's not an easy task.
Added Ferries in the east.
Added Amos-Chibougameau, Chibougameau-Roberval and Beauveville-Edmunston
Changed the road St-Andrews-Digby from 3 to 2.

Anything else I should look?

Again, thank you very much for your help, this board is gonna rock and will certainly add you guys for credits, right on the board.

=============


 
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Randall Bart
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Xordok wrote:


I wish this chart had number of tracks by color.

Just figuring it manually (there may be errors) the totals are:
Red: 33
Blue: 26
Yellow: 26
Purple: 33
Orange: 37
Green: 30
Black: 28
White: 30
Grey: 92

Is this a typical distribution for a TtR map? I would have thought they were nearer the same number per color. Can someone give me numbers? I would change a couple short links from orange and purple to blue and yellow.
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Carl Dumont-R.
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Done.

I don't think there is a "standard" over all boards regarding the number of tracks per color.. Isn't there the same number of colored wagon-cards for each colors ??

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Carl Brousseau
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There's no standard number, but given what you bring up (the train cards are well balanced), the number of tracks of each color on the board should be roughly equal to prevent having a color or two that everybody wants, regardless of their routes. I'd say the number of tracks of each color is more important to achieve that balance than the number of segments.
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Carl Brousseau
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One more point about your updated map -- your ferries actually look like tunnels. Either rule is fine to me but they're very different so you might want to either (i) specify clearly as a note on the board how these ferries are supposed to be played, or (ii) make these routes look like ferries from TTR:Europe (e.g. a loco on 1 or 2 tiles with the remaining tiles having a 'standard' shape).
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Carl Dumont-R.
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Hi Carl,

Yeah, my friend pointed it out for me.. I thought those were ferries.. lol.. Anyways, I'll change some of those big tunnels for ferries, and I'll keep some of them and add some more in the west..

And i'll try to add some colors here and there to even it out..
 
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HazardousOmega
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Hi,

I really want to try the map, do you have a printable version, in like 6 or 8 8.5"x11" sheet with the destination ticket?
 
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christophe cilier
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Hello,

Is your map run as you want ?

Bonjour,

est-ce que ta carte avance comme tu veu ?
Peut etre une date de sortie ?

Moi je termine ma dernière carte et je publie mes 3 cartes d'un coup.
 
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Tony Bolon
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this is my first time posting here but have followed this variant thread for awhile now and was interested in making a custom map as well. I love the clean-ness of the quebec map here and especially the graphics - like the fleur-de-lis for cities in quebec, ships for NB, etc. They look excellent btw! I assume you've drawn them up yourself on photoshop or illustrator? any chance of posting/emailing those graphics? I was thinking of doing a cross-canada version or a maritimer one (as I'm from NB originally).
thanks!
tony
 
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Carl Dumont-R.
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Ok guys..
I'm back on this thread.. I abandonned the project for the past years.. No reason whatsoever, so pardon me on this one!

I'm gonna start by re-reading the suggestions and get back on the project.. I think I already made some modifications suggested before.. I will also post new pics of the board I have..

I will work on the files I have to clean'em a bit.. The whole project weights about 350mb in .PSD files.. I will try to clean and give you guys a way to print and test..

Thanks for your support and private messages, I had like 5-6 of 'em..
Kind of kicked me in the nuts..

So.. I noticed uploadgeek has removed my pictures.. D'oh..!!
Here they are again via ImageShack.. Hope all goes well !









And la pièce de résistance ..
THE BOARD !!

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Martin DeOlden
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Looks awesome. I will definitely download this once it is complete and get it made up.
 
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Carl Dumont-R.
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Looks awsome ?? Pffss !! That was 2009..
Here's my 2012 version I made this week-end..
Soooo much better !!! Really happy with this new result..
Next stop, the train tracks.. Now this is gonna be hard.. :-/

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Carl Brousseau
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Looks beautiful! I see you've added Montmagny, not a big fan -- I think Central/Southern Quebec is already very crowded (Switzerland-like) so I'd rather see the rest of the map a bit more open.

Spelling mistake - it's Edmundston not Edmunston

I'm eager to see what's going to happen with routes.
 
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Carl Dumont-R.
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Hi again..
Yep, I removed Granby and St-Tite..
Added Montmagny per request of the girlfriend.. Her twin sister lives there .. lol.. Sentimental decision..

Corrected the spelling and added routes..
I counted and made an excel sheet of all routes and colors..


Here's the big boy !!


Now, on to the destination cards..
Will take a couple of days of work for sure.. lol..
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