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Subject: When Exactly Are Generals Disgraced? rss

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Tom Slizewski
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Here's the situation: In a combat with an already reduced General HQ (Yudenich in this case), the stack with that HQ loses the combat while on defense. Can the General still use his cancel retreat ability one last time before being removed or is he removed before the retreat step of combat?

Rules say "at end of combat," common sense says that if he's a loser general who just lost again it's not likely he'll do something tactically brilliant while packing up his things to go home.

 
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Kristian Thy
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IQTom wrote:
Here's the situation: In a combat with an already reduced General HQ (Yudenich in this case), the stack with that HQ loses the combat while on defense. Can the General still use his cancel retreat ability one last time before being removed or is he removed before the retreat step of combat?

Rules say "at end of combat," common sense says that if he's a loser general who just lost again it's not likely he'll do something tactically brilliant while packing up his things to go home.


I agree on your point, but "at the end of combat" seems to imply after taking losses, retreating etc.

I'd suggest changing the wording in §3.2.3.1 from "at the end of combat" to "in step 8.d of the combat sequence (see 12.2)".
 
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Neil Randall
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From 3.2.3.1:

• A losing HQ loses 1 step (the general is disgraced). If already
reduced, it is permanently eliminated

Therefore, the change occurs the instant the step loss occurs.

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Tom Slizewski
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The problem with this rules citation is that the sentence to which the bullets apply states "At the end of combat: then ... A losing HQ loses 1 step (the general is disgraced). If already reduced, it is permanently eliminated
 
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Neil Randall
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IQTom wrote:
The problem with this rules citation is that the sentence to which the bullets apply states "At the end of combat: then ... A losing HQ loses 1 step (the general is disgraced). If already reduced, it is permanently eliminated


I missed that bit - sorry.

So what's the problem? "At the end of combat" means at the end of combat. I.e., after the combat sequence is finished.
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Tom Slizewski
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The problem is that this makes no sense as currently written.

The HQ is being lost in step 8d (apply loses) before retreats takes place (step 9), yet it's canceling the retreat taking place after its been eliminated.
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Brad Stock
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Good points all around. Here is an official ruling:

Yudenich gets to use his special ability even if losing and already reduced. That is occuring DURING the battle. After the battle is over, the STAVKA would realize that Yudenich lost "again" and recall him.

Thus, the HQ is reduced (or returned to full strength) as the very last step in the combat sequence.
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Neil Randall
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Cool.

Thanks, Brad.

 
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