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Subject: Convenanters and retreating rss

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Ken McGechaen
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Hi there. I played this game for the first time yesterday and a couple of related questions arose to which we could not find a definative answer. The situation developed as follows;

Leven arrived in Berwick and moved to beseige Newcastle in Newcastle.The siege was lifted by the arrival of an army under Byron from York, and the Scots recoiled onto Berwick.

Charles of Lorraine then landed in the recently relieved Newcastle and followed the Scots up into Berwick.

In the subsequent engagement the Scots suffered a defender drawn battle.

Could they retreat into Scotland to return on a later Activation.

OR

Could they retreat into Scotland and be unable to return.

As it was I retreated them into Corbribge. This was under Royalist control, so should they have taken an additional brigade loss after a drawn battle?

Thanks in anticipation.



 
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Tim P.
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6.5 says if they move off the map then they cannot return.

Quote:

Covenanter Armies may not Disperse, but they may move off the game map (withdrawing into Scotland) by being at Carlisle or Berwick and spending one further move. Once moved off they do not return, and any cards mandating Covenanter withdrawal or arrival is disregarded in that respect.


 
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Ken McGechaen
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Yes indeed, but that case implies they have moved into Scotland voluntarily. However the situation given in the first paragraph of the Solemn League card stipulates that Leven CAN return if he is forced to retreat into Scotland when he initially attempts to arrive.

I do tend to agree that if the Scots subsequently retreat into Scotland they cannot return, based upon the rule you quoted, but there is perhaps an ambiguity and I wanted to clear this up.
 
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Andy Daglish
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Thats no, no, yes.
 
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Charles Vasey
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Prozac wrote:
Yes indeed, but that case implies they have moved into Scotland voluntarily. However the situation given in the first paragraph of the Solemn League card stipulates that Leven CAN return if he is forced to retreat into Scotland when he initially attempts to arrive.

I do tend to agree that if the Scots subsequently retreat into Scotland they cannot return, based upon the rule you quoted, but there is perhaps an ambiguity and I wanted to clear this up.


I take your point, a retreat is not a movement, but in any case I cannot see a retreat over the Border being allowed since there is no Area to which you can retreat. However, I am relaxed as to either solution that you proposed and would slighty favour retreat and the right to return. Moving the Army of the Solemn League out of England voluntarily would have been a political statement, a bit of maneouvre on the Border is probably not as important.

If it gets to be a persistent event I'll give it some more thought.
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Tim P.
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Charles Vasey wrote:
Prozac wrote:
Yes indeed, but that case implies they have moved into Scotland voluntarily. However the situation given in the first paragraph of the Solemn League card stipulates that Leven CAN return if he is forced to retreat into Scotland when he initially attempts to arrive.

I do tend to agree that if the Scots subsequently retreat into Scotland they cannot return, based upon the rule you quoted, but there is perhaps an ambiguity and I wanted to clear this up.


I take your point, a retreat is not a movement, but in any case I cannot see a retreat over the Border being allowed since there is no Area to which you can retreat. However, I am relaxed as to either solution that you proposed and would slighty favour retreat and the right to return. Moving the Army of the Solemn League out of England voluntarily would have been a political statement, a bit of maneouvre on the Border is probably not as important.

If it gets to be a persistent event I'll give it some more thought.


In a few games I have played the Scots have entered and then have been forced to retreat off the map, never to return (based on the rule quoted above).
The embarrassment of being chased out of England by some wee sassenachs must have dampened the Scots spirit.. or they ran out of whiskey.

If this is not the case then the threat of the Scots returning changes the balance of the fight in the North.

An official clarification would be nice.
 
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Charles Vasey
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oi_you_nutter wrote:
Charles Vasey wrote:
Prozac wrote:
Yes indeed, but that case implies they have moved into Scotland voluntarily. However the situation given in the first paragraph of the Solemn League card stipulates that Leven CAN return if he is forced to retreat into Scotland when he initially attempts to arrive.

I do tend to agree that if the Scots subsequently retreat into Scotland they cannot return, based upon the rule you quoted, but there is perhaps an ambiguity and I wanted to clear this up.


I take your point, a retreat is not a movement, but in any case I cannot see a retreat over the Border being allowed since there is no Area to which you can retreat. However, I am relaxed as to either solution that you proposed and would slighty favour retreat and the right to return. Moving the Army of the Solemn League out of England voluntarily would have been a political statement, a bit of maneouvre on the Border is probably not as important.

If it gets to be a persistent event I'll give it some more thought.


In a few games I have played the Scots have entered and then have been forced to retreat off the map, never to return (based on the rule quoted above).
The embarrassment of being chased out of England by some wee sassenachs must have dampened the Scots spirit.. or they ran out of whiskey.

If this is not the case then the threat of the Scots returning changes the balance of the fight in the North.

An official clarification would be nice.


You have the rule, no need to clarify. They cannot retreat into Scotland because there is no Area into which they may retreat. The opportunity to move there is given by a specific rule.

You rascals will have them going to the Isle of Man if I'm not careful....
 
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Ken McGechaen
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Thanks for the clarification and explanations. However Derby did go to The Isle of Man and did return, albeit to meet a sticky end!

Anyway we can now deal with the situation if it should arise again in the future. However still perhaps one for a House Rule.
 
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Tim P.
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Charles Vasey wrote:
oi_you_nutter wrote:
Charles Vasey wrote:
Prozac wrote:
Yes indeed, but that case implies they have moved into Scotland voluntarily. However the situation given in the first paragraph of the Solemn League card stipulates that Leven CAN return if he is forced to retreat into Scotland when he initially attempts to arrive.

I do tend to agree that if the Scots subsequently retreat into Scotland they cannot return, based upon the rule you quoted, but there is perhaps an ambiguity and I wanted to clear this up.


I take your point, a retreat is not a movement, but in any case I cannot see a retreat over the Border being allowed since there is no Area to which you can retreat. However, I am relaxed as to either solution that you proposed and would slighty favour retreat and the right to return. Moving the Army of the Solemn League out of England voluntarily would have been a political statement, a bit of maneouvre on the Border is probably not as important.

If it gets to be a persistent event I'll give it some more thought.


In a few games I have played the Scots have entered and then have been forced to retreat off the map, never to return (based on the rule quoted above).
The embarrassment of being chased out of England by some wee sassenachs must have dampened the Scots spirit.. or they ran out of whiskey.

If this is not the case then the threat of the Scots returning changes the balance of the fight in the North.

An official clarification would be nice.


You have the rule, no need to clarify. They cannot retreat into Scotland because there is no Area into which they may retreat. The opportunity to move there is given by a specific rule.

You rascals will have them going to the Isle of Man if I'm not careful....


If they cannot retreat then they surrender..excellent... it's still bye bye Covenantors.

 
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Charles Vasey
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Prozac wrote:
Thanks for the clarification and explanations. However Derby did go to The Isle of Man and did return, albeit to meet a sticky end!

Anyway we can now deal with the situation if it should arise again in the future. However still perhaps one for a House Rule.


Indeed, official rules are one thing, exploring changes is another.

 
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