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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: which winning conditions do you prefer? rss

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Luke Rut
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Hello!

Short question for all TI3 fans:

Which winning conditions do you prefer and why? Is it the basic 10 victory points option, the long war or maybe age of empires?

My favorite is age of empires as it awards careful planning and good strategy.

I am very courious how others think as recently I ve been arguing with my friend about it. He tried to persuade me that "the long war" is the most used option... What do you think?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!
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Dan
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My group always does the basic 10 victory point option. The game is long enough, and we like not knowing all the conditions before hand.
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Steve Wessels
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I'm also a fan of the Age of Empire variant for the same reason. Use the alternate SC8 card from the expansion too which requires the Age of Empire variant. When choosing SC8 a player may have planned out their turn and executed in such a way as to score multiple victory points. It's awesome to see someone do that and even better if it's me.
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Scott Lewis
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I think Age of Empires is probably somewhat common.. The problem is it doesn't translate well into Shattered Empires without some major variant of Bureaucracy, so with the expansion I'm not sure if it's used as much as it probably was before.

I can pretty much guarantee that Long War is NOT the most popular way to play. I'm sure it's used on occasion, but I'm fairly certain that the regular 10-point game (9-points with Bureaucracy) is FAR more common than Long War, simply because Long War takes so much longer to play; those extra 4 points probably equals at least 2 or 3 hours more to an already lengthy game.
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Steve Wessels
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Not entirely related, but here's the combination of Strategy Cards I use when playing the Age of Empire variant:

SC1: Initiative
SC2: Diplomacy II - I like the annex ability this card provides as another way for a player to expand their empire.
SC3: Political
SC4: Logistics
SC5: Trade II
SC6: Warfare - I still prefer the original one.
SC7: Technology II - Being able to purchase technology cheaper and even purchase 2 technologies as the primary action is cool.
SC8: Imperial II (Age of Empire variant)

- Steve

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Martin DeOlden
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I like playing to 10 VP and using Bureaucracy. I also have a few variant Special Objectives which can be planned out by players ahead of time along with the Artifacts and VotC.
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Ken B
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Our group uses Age of Empires variant, with a 10 pt victory track. I can't imagine how long a game would be with the Long War version.

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Lyn Lee Fox
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I can pretty much guarantee that Long War is NOT the most popular way to play. I'm sure it's used on occasion, but I'm fairly certain that the regular 10-point game (9-points with Bureaucracy) is FAR more common than Long War, simply because Long War takes so much longer to play; those extra 4 points probably equals at least 2 or 3 hours more to an already lengthy game.

I completely agree here. I've never tried "The Long War" as it's already hard enough to find enough players with enough time to play the regular length game.

Not that I'm particularly against Age of Empires, but I usually use the regular 10-point game.
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Steve Wessels
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foxx wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
I can pretty much guarantee that Long War is NOT the most popular way to play. I'm sure it's used on occasion, but I'm fairly certain that the regular 10-point game (9-points with Bureaucracy) is FAR more common than Long War, simply because Long War takes so much longer to play; those extra 4 points probably equals at least 2 or 3 hours more to an already lengthy game.

I completely agree here. I've never tried "The Long War" as it's already hard enough to find enough players with enough time to play the regular length game.

Not that I'm particularly against Age of Empires, but I usually use the regular 10-point game.


Age of Empires is still a 10 point game. It can end sooner if too many turns elapse before someone hits 10 points. My own experience has been that 10 points are often reached before the "clock" runs out on Age of Empires. I believe Age of Empires is one of the best ways you can get a full game that can end sooner because players can actually form a strategy for getting points from very early on in the game.
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Lyn Lee Fox
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Actually, I don't -quite- play with the basic victory conditions. I play without a SC8 because I don't like how they all are designed to be picked for the win; I like more variety than that. Like maybe you'll take warfare to claim a system you need for victory, or you'll take diplomacy to keep hold of that vital system one last round, or you'll choose technology to get a tech to let you qualify for an objective to win, or... you get the idea. But with any of the SC8's in the game, the game has always ended from someone using it to win. (In a few cases it caused Imperium Rex to show up, but even then the player that chose it won.)

Anyways... since I don't use a SC8, I instead reveal a new objective at the end of the round.... and I do this after objectives are claimed. And I start with the first objective in play. In this way players always get advanced notice of what they are going after and always have something to go for right at the start.

So it's kind of a cross between the basic method and age of empires.
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Steve Wessels
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That's cool.

This whole discussion drives home the point that TI-3 is such a flexible design that many owners can make tweaks or enhancements to the basic rules and get both high enjoyment out of the game and still not break the game. Another reason I love the design of TI-3.

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Scott Lewis
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foxx wrote:
Actually, I don't -quite- play with the basic victory conditions. I play without a SC8 because I don't like how they all are designed to be picked for the win; I like more variety than that. Like maybe you'll take warfare to claim a system you need for victory, or you'll take diplomacy to keep hold of that vital system one last round, or you'll choose technology to get a tech to let you qualify for an objective to win, or... you get the idea. But with any of the SC8's in the game, the game has always ended from someone using it to win. (In a few cases it caused Imperium Rex to show up, but even then the player that chose it won.)

Anyways... since I don't use a SC8, I instead reveal a new objective at the end of the round.... and I do this after objectives are claimed. And I start with the first objective in play. In this way players always get advanced notice of what they are going after and always have something to go for right at the start.

So it's kind of a cross between the basic method and age of empires.

With Imperial II, it becomes MUCH less of a "pick to win" card. Sure, it can give you a point if you control Mecatol Rex, and it also has the option of letting you obtain multiple objectives, but just as often it is used for the free build - which can be VERY powerful in the right circumstances. The Production card in Shattered Empires allows roughly the same thing (though it also allows others to build).

Bureaucracy also becomes less of a "pick to win" card. In the VERY late game, it can be a desirable card in order to pick Imperium Rex, but then again, if this is a problem you can always just remove Imperium Rex and play a full set of cards.

IE - Imperial I tends to be a "pick to win" card, but the other two SC8's aren't as centered around that.
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Lyn Lee Fox
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sigmazero13 wrote:
...Imperial I tends to be a "pick to win" card, but the other two SC8's aren't as centered around that.

Granted the newer SC8s aren't as bad as the original, which was more of a "pick at every chance or you lose" card. They other SC8s are "pick to win" meaning when a player is posed to win, that's the SC they pick. This has happened in every game I've played that included them. Hence why I've quit using them; to get more variety.

The problem, I believe, is that both Imperial II and Bureaucracy allow the player to claim more than one objective.

As an added benefit, by revealing the new objective at the end of the status phase (after objectives are claimed), players always get one round to plan for the new objective. Plus, a round when Imperium Rex shows up isn't a waste; the normal way, when Imperium Rex shows up, it ends the game before VPs are scored thus making that last round seem largely pointless.
 
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