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Subject: Goblin retreat/panic losses query rss

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Eric Weinstein
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Greetings fellow geeks,
If a goblin is forced to retreat and his escape path is blocked does he lose units for each hex not retreated plus the opponent gets to roll panic die for each hex covered?
Example: A defending goblin foot unit has 2 black flags rolled against it, it moves back one hex but it's blocked from anymore retreating. It then loses 3 units and the opponent rolls one extra die for a panic loss check and scores a hit and takes the flag bearer.
Is this right? It seems a little to devastating for such a mediocre special ability[goblin rush]. Thanks for any help...
 
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Mikkel Øberg
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It has been some time since I last played, but as far as I remember that would be correct. Remember, Gobbos are utter crap in most cases.

Edit:
I just had my rulebook out, and yes, the moment they cannot flee anymore, you roll a die for panic loss per hex fled. And then you loose units per hex you were unable to flee, so in your example the whole unit would be routed.
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Phil McDonald
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That is correct.
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Todd Rewoldt
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Gregaria wrote:
Remember, Gobbos are utter crap in most cases.


That is not correct
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E K
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toddrew wrote:
Gregaria wrote:
Remember, Gobbos are utter crap in most cases.


That is not correct ;)


Cobols are just sad units, except the green cavalry ! They rule... + Sling dudes.

One flag will cause one figure loss...+ so if rolled 2 flags... and cobols retreat only 1 hex. They take 2 damage. 1 totally flag and one partally retreated flag = 1 hit.. then roll one dice to see if panic loss is taken.


 
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Phil McDonald
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Gimbal wrote:
toddrew wrote:
Gregaria wrote:
Remember, Gobbos are utter crap in most cases.


That is not correct


Cobols are just sad units, except the green cavalry ! They rule... + Sling dudes.

One flag will cause one figure loss...+ so if rolled 2 flags... and cobols retreat only 1 hex. They take 2 damage. 1 totally flag and one partally retreated flag = 1 hit.. then roll one dice to see if panic loss is taken.




Nope,

They retreat 2 spaces for each flag they can't ignore. They lose a figure for each space they cannot retreat, and roll a panic dice for each space they CAN retreat.
 
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Mikkel Øberg
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toddrew wrote:
Gregaria wrote:
Remember, Gobbos are utter crap in most cases.


That is not correct


I hate Gobbos. And I ain't got no slings cry
 
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E K
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"If a unit cannot retreat because its retreat path is
blocked by another unit or impassable terrain, or it
is forced to retreat off the limits of the battlefield,
one figure must be removed from the unit for each
retreat hex of movement that cannot be completed." - Directly from rules.

Cool Gobols are really BAD.
Nice. But I think +15 rounds with the "wrong" rule will be turned to house rule.

Thanks for the correction BTW.

 
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Todd Rewoldt
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AncientManBeast wrote:
It seems a little too devastating for such a mediocre special ability[goblin rush]. Thanks for any help...


My first entry in this thread was a bit flippant, but one that I felt was true. I think the above comment overstates the negative (having a frightened morale) and understates the positive (Goblin Rush).

Granted, it doesn't come through so much in the base game adventures, where there aren't usually packs of Goblins and those that are on the board are mainly green and blue. I also do not mean to say that "frightened" can be just ignored by the goblin controlling player and those pieces can be moved about with no regard for their retreat paths and support. However, using the Goblins wisely, one can usually initiate combat and then move back away from conflict. When one can gain a numbers advantage with the Gobbos this will become a noticable advantage. Swarming enemies and routing them before they get a chance to fight back for a prolonged time is how to play the Goblin side.

 
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I think that you are Really Richard Borg... just justifying everything that is in the game ;)

Some like apples and some don't ;)

Goblins are mano-i-mano crap to humans, but in game you can sort things so that they are not used until they are in a proper situation. This also gives away your plan. So its always 2 headed snake. Clear weakness is good, but have to admit that red goblins are so good that I will take 2 blue bannered goblins with it ,)

Green is pure crap ;) and usually will be chanced to slingers ;)
 
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Eric Weinstein
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thanks guys,
As I haven't played with alot of gob red/blue infantry it just seemed so devastating to the cav/green units. I wonder why the dwarves didn't have something like a 'Little Legs' disadvantage that would make them move less spaces to make the mercs more balanced. Anyways, I was wondering if anybody used any house rules with the gobs or if the gob expansions really add alot to make them better?
 
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Matthias Kortleven
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AncientManBeast wrote:
thanks guys,
As I haven't played with alot of gob red/blue infantry it just seemed so devastating to the cav/green units. I wonder why the dwarves didn't have something like a 'Little Legs' disadvantage that would make them move less spaces to make the mercs more balanced. Anyways, I was wondering if anybody used any house rules with the gobs or if the gob expansions really add alot to make them better?


With expansions the races are better fleshed out. For instance: the Goblin Spearbearers are absolutely devastating with Goblin Rush and Dwarven Infantry are rather bad (but cool looking!).
 
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Todd Rewoldt
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Gimbal wrote:
I think that you are Really Richard Borg... just justifying everything that is in the game




Quote:
..., but in game you can sort things so that they are not used until they are in a proper situation.


Exactly - it is the variation between units that help make this game an interesting one. Figuring out how to turn apparent disadvantages into advantages, how to make best use of the units on the board, etc. is what has kept this game fresh for me for 2+ years (it certainly hasn't been the steady-stream release of factions, creatures, campaigns, ... laugh ).

Quote:
This also gives away your plan. So its always 2 headed snake.


To me, this is another advantage that the gobbos afford: they are flexible in their attack patterns, so it is easier to obscure ones intentions from the other player. To me that is a key of the game, being able to keep the opponent guessing. If an experienced player knows what is coming from the opponent, a clear advantage is gained.

 
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Todd Rewoldt
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AncientManBeast wrote:
I wonder why the dwarves didn't have something like a 'Little Legs' disadvantage that would make them move less spaces to make the mercs more balanced.


Again, it doesn't always come through in the base game adventures (I think adventure #4: Deeper in Castille is responsible for the initial overtly negative experiences and resulting point of view that players have with the goblinoids), but typically the disadvantage handed out to the dwarves is fewer numbers. At first this doesn't seem like much of a disadvantage - perhaps even viewed as a positive, initially; having fewer banners for the opponent to garner - as the game is decided by who can take the more banners, not who is able to outlast the other. However, being able to cycle full morale units in for weakened units allows one to lose a few battles yet ultimately win the war. Using the goblins typically greater numbers to outlast the outnumbered dwarves is a good tactic to employ towards reaching that end. This is where the counter balance between Dwarves and Goblins lies: Dwarves are "stronger" unit by unit compared to Goblins (as far as foots go), Goblins are faster (both in advancing and retreating) and outnumber the Dwarves.

Quote:
Anyways, I was wondering if anybody used any house rules with the gobs or if the gob expansions really add alot to make them better?


I never shy away from house rules (fun to come up with and to play ), but I do ask that players of the C&C games give the "as is" rules a chance, as they are very nuanced and their implications do not always reveal themselves on the first few plays.

That said, the expansions really do increase the ability of the Goblinoids to work well as a fighting force. The frightened weakness is addressed with the Goblin Band (which is strong army-wide, not just for the Goblins) and the Embedded Drummers. As Matthias pointed out, the Goblin Spear Bearers are fierce (though I wouldn't agree that the Dwarven Spear Bearers are awful - just not as potent ), and the Hyenas, Ostrich Riders, and Slingers all add dimensions of flexibility and speed to ones side.
 
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Craig Rose
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Gregaria wrote:
Gobbos are utter crap in most cases.

Although the TC's question has been answered, I felt compelled to speak up for my beloved goblin army.

In the base game, yes, goblins have some serious hurdles to overcome. It's even more critical to keep them in supported formation or on landmarks that give them a bold status.

With the inclusion of the drummers and the band, goblins can definitely hold their own against the other races.
 
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David Stålhane
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Thanks a lot, I was just wondering the same thing, it just feels kinda harsh that they'd suffer that much from a frightened retreat. Oh well, I guess that's what goblins do best, attack in large groups and die horribly =)
 
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Mikko Lehtonen
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philmcd wrote:
Gimbal wrote:
toddrew wrote:
Gregaria wrote:
Remember, Gobbos are utter crap in most cases.


That is not correct ;)


Cobols are just sad units, except the green cavalry ! They rule... + Sling dudes.

One flag will cause one figure loss...+ so if rolled 2 flags... and cobols retreat only 1 hex. They take 2 damage. 1 totally flag and one partally retreated flag = 1 hit.. then roll one dice to see if panic loss is taken.




Nope,

They retreat 2 spaces for each flag they can't ignore. They lose a figure for each space they cannot retreat, and roll a panic dice for each space they CAN retreat.


How about a situation where Goblins are in a SPIDER WEB by Giant Spider and can't retreat. The Giant Spider rules say that each flag rolled counts as a hit on a unit in a WEB. If I attack and roll one flag on Goblins that are on a WEB, how should this be resolved?

1. Flag on Goblins in a WEB = 1 hit, nothing more
2. Flag on Goblins in a WEB = 1 hit + 1 extra hit because Goblins are Frightened and would retreat additional hex but can't do that
3. Flag on Goblins in a WEB = 1 hit + 2 extra hit because Goblins are Frightened and would retreat 2 hexes but can't do that

And no Panic Loss Check is made?
 
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