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Subject: $44 dollar dice at FLGS & MSRP rant rss

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Steve Charbonneau
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I was at a FLGS today, and noticed a set of Call of Cthulhu dice for $44 dollars:
http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=251... (the ones in the URL list for $18).

ASL mapboards are now thin cardstock rather than the mounted boards -yet the supplements cost roughly a half of an xBox.

Sans the economy, the CPI, and the stars NOT being right -what are you noticing at your shops?

I love Fantasy Flight Game's production values -but I'm having a hard time justifying many products MSRPs at the moment.

sc
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J
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I agree with you that a lot of it is priced higher than I'm willing to pay, although I don't complain about pricing for luxury items or services. If enough people don't pay the prices they set they either lower the prices or go out of business. If people are willing to pay the higher price then I can't hold it against a business for getting as much profit as they can manage.

It's similar to the whole "athletes get paid too much" argument. As soon as people aren't willing to pay $60 for a baseball ticket then athletes won't be paid that much. Supply and demand and all that. If I'm selling a product I'm going to charge as much as I can get away with.
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Jeff Forbes

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You mean ASL map bundles like this?

http://www.thoughthammer.com/asl-map-bundle-starter-kit-styl...

They're expensive largely because so few of them are made. Games like that aren't sold in the hundreds of thousands, or likely not even in the tens of thousands. The maps take a while to design, and, how many people work for Multi-Man - 3? How much is Curt Schilling's time worth? ;)


Odds are that if they produced 20 times as many, the production cost would be 1/4 what it is, and they'd likely be willing to sell at a lower price. But, here's another thought - those maps are made for serious ASL players (is there such a thing as a casual ASL fan?). For most of these players, even if they see a high price, they'll gag a little bit, and buy it, because nothing else offers a comparable experience for them.

So, that's the other half of the pricing - they are charging what the market will bear.



I've never been an in-person retail shopper. I'll buy stuff at retail from time to time, but if they are charging MSRP, the only time I'm really going to buy is if I want one thing, and one thing only, and it'll cost me just as much to get it shipped... and it looks like at retail, the prices on everything are almost invariably MRSP. If you don't want to pay it, support someone that can afford to sell them cheaper through volume. If you desire to support your FLGS, feel free to overpay.

Every shop I've been in has charged full MRSP for nearly everything they sell. I haven't encountered those that sell things for more, but it wouldn't amaze me if I did.


 
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Brad Miller
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Voice your displeasure by not purchasing items you feel are overpriced?
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Charbs wrote:
Sans the economy, the CPI, and the stars NOT being right -what are you noticing at your shops?

I'm noticing that my FLGSs continue to offer many bargains compared with online prices.
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Mark Crane
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My FLGS has games for about 25 percent off, but Big Plastic games like Descent have increased in price ($60) and FRED games are not discounted, so I don't buy them.
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Nathan Collins
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jarredscott78 wrote:
I agree with you that a lot of it is priced higher than I'm willing to pay, although I don't complain about pricing for luxury items or services. If enough people don't pay the prices they set they either lower the prices or go out of business. If people are willing to pay the higher price then I can't hold it against a business for getting as much profit as they can manage.

It's similar to the whole "athletes get paid too much" argument. As soon as people aren't willing to pay $60 for a baseball ticket then athletes won't be paid that much. Supply and demand and all that. If I'm selling a product I'm going to charge as much as I can get away with.
I agree with you on everything but the anology. Sports is a different monster and I don't see the price of athletes paychecks dimenishing, even in hard times. At best the teams just layoff "the other" workers. For instance, thisyear is approaching the highest salaries ever, but the nfl laid off 300 people.
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J
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dontadow wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
I agree with you that a lot of it is priced higher than I'm willing to pay, although I don't complain about pricing for luxury items or services. If enough people don't pay the prices they set they either lower the prices or go out of business. If people are willing to pay the higher price then I can't hold it against a business for getting as much profit as they can manage.

It's similar to the whole "athletes get paid too much" argument. As soon as people aren't willing to pay $60 for a baseball ticket then athletes won't be paid that much. Supply and demand and all that. If I'm selling a product I'm going to charge as much as I can get away with.
I agree with you on everything but the anology. Sports is a different monster and I don't see the price of athletes paychecks dimenishing, even in hard times. At best the teams just layoff "the other" workers. For instance, thisyear is approaching the highest salaries ever, but the nfl laid off 300 people.

Again, that's a business decision and it's based on maximizing profits. Someone decided where to best cut back. Saying you don't see athletes paychecks decreasing is fine which to me is like saying people won't stop attending. But they WILL decrease if people stop going. There's no way around it. And you can't just keep laying off all the supporting staff when the players are making tens of millions and the "other workers" are probably making a fraction of that. There isn't much fat to be trimmed there.
 
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Matt Dodor
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craniac wrote:
My FLGS has games for about 25 percent off, but Big Plastic games like Descent have increased in price ($60) and FRED games are not discounted, so I don't buy them.


I don't think that's going to work. I think you need to complain on the internet first.
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Joshua Githens
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Charbs wrote:
I was at a FLGS today, and noticed a set of Call of Cthulhu dice for $44 dollars:
http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=251... (the ones in the URL list for $18).

ASL mapboards are now thin cardstock rather than the mounted boards -yet the supplements cost roughly a half of an xBox.

Sans the economy, the CPI, and the stars NOT being right -what are you noticing at your shops?

I love Fantasy Flight Game's production values -but I'm having a hard time justifying many products MSRPs at the moment.

sc


Double check the dice at your FLGS. There is a set of Cthulu dice that are limited production and glow in the dark, my store has them also and I scoffed at the price tag. The one's in the link are not the same as the set at my shop, I suspect that your FLGS has the Limited Glow in the Dark set as well. Not that I'm paying $44 for a set of dice ever.
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J.L. Robert
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Again, that's a business decision and it's based on maximizing profits.


Welcome to The Wonderful World of Capitalism. The only business that truly looks out for you would be your own.
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Steve Charbonneau
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Jeff - Those are the boards. I really miss the old mounted games these days. I think my favorite board is still the one in Fury of Dracula. War of the Ring is a close second. The new Age of Conan is 'artistically different'.

Jarred - Good point. I'm almost more inclined to buy a luxury item. But I expect some bang for my buck. I do own Dread Pirate, which I paid over $100 -but even that has a split in the top. I know there is a version of Catan out there for over $400 -and it seems people have had some quality issues with it. I own an Isle of Lewis chess set (~$500) made out of soapstone -the pieces will break if they are dropped and land wrong. I owned the Franklin Mint Monopoly set (~$500) whose imitation wood was stapled to the felt board. What is a quality set these days that isn't comprised of cheap material?

Brad - Just what I did -it was the first time I walked out of a game store without buying anything! That felt very weird to me.

They must be glow in the dark dice -didn't notice any marketing on the packaging to indicate this, only the price tag.

I still support my local shop, which gave a 20% discount (but recently changed to 10% due to poor EBIT -suprisingly
 
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Joseph
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Charbs wrote:

Sans the economy, the CPI, and the stars NOT being right -what are you noticing at your shops?



Truthfully, my shop has always been a bit high.

I notice that smaller games seem to be selling well, (Like card games) and that big boxes don't seem to move as well as they did. Seems like people are ordering smaller stuff now.

CCGs are as strong as ever. Maybe stronger.

$44 is a LOT of money for some dice though.
 
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Steve Charbonneau
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I'm still on the fence about maximization of profits. This is obviously what most business is about in a capitalist society -I am not that naive to believe otherwiselaugh

However, I genuinely believe my FLGS owner has other concerns. One doesn't go into that business to get rich -there is obviously appears to be love for the product / genre there as well.

Not sure what margins I would be after if an owner, especially with the global competitiveness the Internet can offer.

I suppose this is how the Grognards of old felt when that pesky fantasy game started taking over their havens in the late 70s. Now we risk losing the FLGS to FLWS (web site)!
 
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J.L. Robert
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Charbs wrote:
Not sure what margins I would be after if an owner, especially with the global competitiveness the Internet can offer.


Once you figure out the store's operating costs (rent, wages, utilities, etc.), you can estimate how much a store needs to sell in order to turn a profit.

Figure their cost for merchandise is 55-60% of MSRP. A $50 game will generate $20-22 to help offset those costs.

A 20% discount for that same game (selling it at $40), shaves off HALF of the store's profit. 30% off? The store makes $5 from that game. The store needs to QUADRUPLE its sales volume to generate the same net profit. Most stores I know don't have the liquid assets to stock that much merchandise.

And we're not even starting to discuss the investment in games that simply don't sell...
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Jason's Good Twin
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I do have to agree that MSRP vs. online is a huge disparity for me. While I'm new to "real" gaming, I'm just baffled by MSRP prices and online prices.

I'm sure this argument has been hashed over many times, so I'll not go into any anecdotal details. I'm just pointing out that as a game newbie, it's hard to swallow $50+shipping vs. $80+tax.



 
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Jeff Yeackle
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jtabler wrote:
I do have to agree that MSRP vs. online is a huge disparity for me. While I'm new to "real" gaming, I'm just baffled by MSRP prices and online prices.

I'm sure this argument has been hashed over many times, so I'll not go into any anecdotal details. I'm just pointing out that as a game newbie, it's hard to swallow $50+shipping vs. $80+tax.


The rule of thumb I and many others use is this: Without bringing morals into the equation, if you have a LGS that offers up beyond-the-box services that you utilize and you wish to continue utilizing those services, it's in your best interest to purchase from them as much as possible.

I don't have a FLGS so I send as much of my business to my FOGS. Since most of them offer very similar pricing, I stick with the ones that go above and beyond just offering a great price such as supporting conventions, advertising on BGG, being involved in the community here, etc etc.
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steve mizuno
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jarredscott78 wrote:
dontadow wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
I agree with you that a lot of it is priced higher than I'm willing to pay, although I don't complain about pricing for luxury items or services. If enough people don't pay the prices they set they either lower the prices or go out of business. If people are willing to pay the higher price then I can't hold it against a business for getting as much profit as they can manage.

It's similar to the whole "athletes get paid too much" argument. As soon as people aren't willing to pay $60 for a baseball ticket then athletes won't be paid that much. Supply and demand and all that. If I'm selling a product I'm going to charge as much as I can get away with.
I agree with you on everything but the anology. Sports is a different monster and I don't see the price of athletes paychecks dimenishing, even in hard times. At best the teams just layoff "the other" workers. For instance, thisyear is approaching the highest salaries ever, but the nfl laid off 300 people.

Again, that's a business decision and it's based on maximizing profits. Someone decided where to best cut back. Saying you don't see athletes paychecks decreasing is fine which to me is like saying people won't stop attending. But they WILL decrease if people stop going. There's no way around it. And you can't just keep laying off all the supporting staff when the players are making tens of millions and the "other workers" are probably making a fraction of that. There isn't much fat to be trimmed there.


One point that you haven't taken into account in the sports field - much of the cost of sports teams is actually being financed by the taxpayers. How, you ask? By the tax breaks that corporations get for buying luxury boxes and banks of seats, which, by the way, then get passed on to the consumers of their products. One reason, by the way, that I believe that ALL corporate sponsorship of sports teams should no longer be allowed as a tax deduction.
 
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