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Subject: Another enemy placement question or two rss

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Rich Dodgin
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So, my unit moves into Row 1, draws for contact and gets an enemy maneuver. I draw for placement and get Max forward LOS - the card in Row 2 is open fields (white borders top and bottom) so I place the German unit in Row 3. It draws for infiltration and fails. It is therefore marked as Exposed and I place PDF markers from my unit through the open field and onto the enemy unit (i.e. I've spotted them but they haven't spotted me).

Question 1: Is all of the above correct?
Question 2: Do I remove the PC Marker from the Open Fields card? (there is something in the rules about doing this as the enemy wouldn't fire on it's own units on that card, but as the German unit hasn't spotted my unit and hasn't opened fire, I wonder if the PC Marker should stay?)

Another unit then moves into the card to right of my first unit (so also in Row 1) and draws for contact and gets a sniper. Drawing for placement I get front left. That is the Open Fields card.

Question 3: Should I place the sniper on the Open Fields card, or does the fact that there are PDF markers moving through it mean it is not a legal placement for the sniper?
Question 4: If it is a legal placement, what the heck happens in combat? The sniper is unspotted but is in the line of fire as my unit is shooting at the maneuver unit beyond it...does the sniper get a VOF against it? What happens to the maneuver - is it hit as well, or does the sniper take the fire instead of it?

Any advice / suggestions very much appreciated !

Cheers.
 
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Matt R
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Answer 1: Yes
Answer 2: The PC Marker would only be removed if the enemy unit ends up firing through the card. If only the U.S. unit is firing through the card then the PC Marker stays I believe.
Answer 3: See answer 2.
Answer 4: See above. I don't really have an answer to this right now.
EDIT: For your fourth question, I guess I'm not exactly following what you are meaning. Enemy units will not fire through cards containing their own units, but they will fire upon cards that contain both U.S. and enemy units. Also, I think the enemy placement activity checks sometimes has units removed from play if they have no viable U.S. targets.

Best of luck.
 
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Rich Dodgin
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Not sure if I explained the above correctly, so hopefully this will help:

3a 3b
2a 2b
1a 1b

The above are location cards - rows 1, 2 and 3 respectively.

3a - enemy maneuver is here.
2a - sniper is here
1a - US unit here - firing at maneuver on 3a
1b - US unit here being fired at by sniper on 2a

Bascially, my question is: If a US unit starts firing at a newly appeared and spotted enemy 2 cards away, but there is (in the same turn) a newly appeared but unspotted enemy on the card between, what happens? (and should the unspotted enemy have been placed there in the first place anyway?)

Thanks.
 
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Michael Taylor
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1. Enemy units always spot your units. They don't have to draw cards for spotting. In the combat section it will place a VOF marker according to the hierarchy of such things. The last sentence of rule section 9.3 on page 32 says this.

2. According to the official errate, the PC marker is removed if it is on the same level as the firing units. Don't remove it until the enemy squad places its VOF.

3. The sniper cannot set up in the field because the PDF goes through there. Draw another card for placement.

4. N/A

I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.

Mike
 
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Rich Dodgin
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Cheers guys.

I've come to the conclusion that the Sniper should be placed elsewhere - even though the bit in the rulebook about not placing enemy units where there is a PDF actually specifies an enemy PDF... and in this case the Maneuver does not place PDF (according to the placement chart).

Michael, I don't think enemy units always spot you - the Maneuver comes into play without placing a PDF, attempts an infiltration, and is basically a free target for the US unit who discovered it for that turn: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/3172322#3172322

Ricky - any chance you could confirm any / all of the above? I'm going to continue playing as if the maneuver gets fired on but doesn't fire back this turn, and am going to place the sniper elsewhere.... but I'd love to know for sure

Thanks.

[Edit: Sorry Michael - I now understand what you mean - enemy units always spot US units - it's just that in this instance they don't fire this turn as they've been caught unawares]
 
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D Summers
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gvchief wrote:
1. Enemy units always spot your units. They don't have to draw cards for spotting. In the combat section it will place a VOF marker according to the hierarchy of such things. The last sentence of rule section 9.3 on page 32 says this.


This is semantics, but while your unit is spotted, in the maneuver force package, it states you don't place a PDF (at least initially). So while both units have LOS, this is a rare scenario where on the first combat phase the enemy doesn't place a VOF even if it has a friendly in LOS. At least that's my understanding.

Edit - Rich, spotting means the unit has to draw cards next turn to spot your force. I don't think the Maneuver package states this. It just says don't place a PDF initially (presumably next turn it will start firing ... i.e. I don't think it has to draw to spot your troops).
 
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Matt R
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Its been a while since I've broken out FoF myself but that sounds right Michael.
 
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Rich Dodgin
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Yeah, you're right David. I didn't explain what I meant very clearly. blush

I wasn't going to make the enemy draw to spot me - I've been playing Infiltration Squad Attempts / Maneuvers exactly how you describe:

Quote:
...So while both units have LOS, this is a rare scenario where on the first combat phase the enemy doesn't place a VOF even if it has a friendly in LOS...


I'm still a little unclear about the positioning of the Sniper - but for now I'm going to position it elsewhere.


 
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D Summers
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I would say the sniper is ok at 2a since the other unit hasn't placed a PDF yet. But as for whom your friendly units target ... I have no idea. My guess is they still fire two cards away, through the sniper card, at the card that they encountered first. But maybe Ricky could clarify.

Of course when in doubt, i do the same thing ... just redraw.
 
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Rich Dodgin
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Quote:
I would say the sniper is ok at 2a since the other unit hasn't placed a PDF yet. But as for whom your friendly units target ... I have no idea. My guess is they still fire two cards away, through the sniper card, at the card that they encountered first.


Well, that was what I'd originally planned on doing, as the sniper is unspotted. But I'm not sure if that means he is in no danger of being hit, or not...

But, yeah, redrawing is the easy option for now
 
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Rich Dodgin
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Ok. I've done a lot more searching on the forums here, and I've found the following thread: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/2965485#2965485

The last 2 posts are as follows:

Quote:
Jorge Arroyo (maka) said:
In another thread I remember reading that the fact that you have a pdf towards another card doesn't automatically mean you get to put a VOF on any card in that direction. So you may be able to shift fire towards an empty card (still not sure about this one) but that fire won't affect unspotted enemies...


Quote:
Ben Hull (benhull) replied:
As it is constructed, what you describe is allowed. There is no restriction on shifting fires to only spotted enemy occupied cards. Keep in mind all basic VOFs are essentially area / supressive fire, so no additional modifiers are necessary. Concentrated fire, cross fire and grenade attacks are the more precise fires.
It is clear that you cannot open fire on an unspotted card so in the example the squad fired upon could not open fire, but the other squad could shift fire. The VOF would be resolved normally, but since the unit is unspotted, you could not concentrate fire on it.
In the example the HMG in the church will be pretty well protected, so a hit is pretty unlikely.


Which suggests to me that it would be valid for me to place the sniper on the card between the US unit and the German maneuver the US unit is firing at, and that the sniper would then effectively be being shot at by the US unit and would get a VOF against it - and this would be in addition to the VOF against the German maneuver.

What does everyone think?




 
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Ricky Gray
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Quote:
What does everyone think?


Hi, Rich. You need to redraw for a different placement location for the sniper. He won't appear in between a friendly and enemy unit that are firing at each other.

Thanks,
Ricky
 
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Rich Dodgin
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Cool. Thanks Ricky
 
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