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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: questions from a m44 player rss

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robert wood
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1. IMO, m44 takes too long to set up, mainly due to the terrain tiles. is this game better in that regard?

2. i'm worried that this game is too similar to m44. is that a legitimate concern? are there enough changes in the rules to justify purchasing this one?

3. are there enough scenarios for this game?

4. my boys, 13 and 11, like m44 but are getting bored with it. i want something more advanced. i'm thinking about this game or battlelore. would appreciate some compare/contrast between the two. my boys like fantasy stuff (lord of the rings).

thanks
 
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John Culp
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the game is fairly similar to memoir...same system.

but they've added rules to ancients that make it just that little bit more meaty. the leadership and support rules make formations and how you move, engaging the enemy etc all that much more important, and really makes the game "feel" right. in memoir, it never 'felt' right, as the changing dice for range didn't make it feel to me like tanks or infantry.

there are tons of scenarios, even without getting the expansions. the expansions though (if you go that route) are seriously meaty..with new armies, new pieces of history to look at.

setup might be an issue. the blocks are easier to setup, there are usually less terrain tiles on a map than memoir, but there are more types of units to match. I keep all my blocks in a Plano box separated, but you still have to match the types to the scenario.

I received Memoir, my wife liked it because it was alittle simpler than ancients, but i traded it away because Ancients "feels" right. its just wargamey enough for me to enjoy it while getting other people to play and enjoy it.

I haven't played battlelore.
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Bill J
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Everything that John said above is accurate. The rules are meatier and the unit variability make it whole lot of fun.

As far as set-up goes, I use Plano containers to organize all of my CC:A armies and as a result, it sets up fast. For me, CC:A plays a little faster than M44 because the cubes are easier to stand and move. I'm pretty clumsy with the little M44/Battle Cry/Tide of Iron figures and had a tendency to drop them. In my case, the cubes are a little easier to handle.

edit:grammar
 
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Todd Rewoldt
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Happy to go into specifics, but I'll for now I would just like to say that the variation between the three games is much more than just cosmetic. Very different tactical experiences between the three games. If one has the time to spend with all three, I would suggest owning all of them.
 
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Kent Reuber
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captainmike wrote:
4. my boys, 13 and 11, like m44 but are getting bored with it. i want something more advanced. i'm thinking about this game or battlelore. would appreciate some compare/contrast between the two. my boys like fantasy stuff (lord of the rings).


Between BattleLore and C&CA, I think BattleLore is the more approachable game. Both games allow units which two adjacent units to ignore a flag and to battle back if the attacker's roll doesn't force a retreat or eliminate the unit. BattleLore doesn't have leaders and there are way fewer types of units, which makes it simpler. BattleLore does have the added complexities of spells and the War Council which allows you to customize your army abilities, but these are advanced rules which you can add in later.

Lots of scenarios are available for either:
http://battleloremaster.com/
http://ccancients.net/
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Carl Deaton
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captainmike wrote:
1. IMO, m44 takes too long to set up, mainly due to the terrain tiles. is this game better in that regard?

2. i'm worried that this game is too similar to m44. is that a legitimate concern? are there enough changes in the rules to justify purchasing this one?

3. are there enough scenarios for this game?

4. my boys, 13 and 11, like m44 but are getting bored with it. i want something more advanced. i'm thinking about this game or battlelore. would appreciate some compare/contrast between the two. my boys like fantasy stuff (lord of the rings).

thanks


1. CCA will take longer to set-up as you search for the correct blocks. I don't know how much longer, say 10%? If you have a dedicated gaming table I'd just leave it out.

2. It is very similar to M44 in board size, card activation, right/center/left movements, terrain tiles, stuff like that. However, they "feel" very different. The big differences are the battle back mechanism, use of leaders, and that actual ancient battles better conform to the right flank/center/left flank system than WW2. To me, the system has the right "feel" for ancients while I didn't get the right "feel" of M44 as a WW2 game. I think CCA is a much better game and keeps the player who is off-turn more interested due to the battle back.

3. There are a bunch of scenarios as Kent pointed out in the reply above.

4. How about get them War of the Ring for the fantasy hook, get them CCA and tie the battles to history lessons. They might not want to read a biography of Caesar right now but they may become interested enough to read a few well placed and easy to digest Osprey books, which in turn will reinforce interest in playing the game. I have a lot more fun when I know a bit about the leaders and the history behind the scenario.

Forgot to add you can preview the rules and official scenarios here:
http://www.gmtgames.com/p-32-commands-colors-ancients.aspx
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Matthew Jones
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Threedub wrote:
1. CCA will take longer to set-up as you search for the correct blocks. I don't know how much longer, say 10%? If you have a dedicated gaming table I'd just leave it out.

2. It is very similar to M44 in board size, card activation, right/center/left movements, terrain tiles, stuff like that. However, they "feel" very different. The big differences are the battle back mechanism, use of leaders, and that actual ancient battles better conform to the right flank/center/left flank system than WW2. To me, the system has the right "feel" for ancients while I didn't get the right "feel" of M44 as a WW2 game. I think CCA is a much better game and keeps the player who is off-turn more interested due to the battle back.


1. I haven't found CC:A to be much more in terms of set up: the short time in M'44 spent on units is easily made up for by all the tiles to set up. A well organized CC:A (Not to suggest that yours isn't), didn't fell significantly longer than M'44 in the setup.

2. I have to agree with your second point. The C&C system seems to be made for formation warfare, whether it's BattleLore, CC:A, or ACW with Battlecry. It just doesn't quite flow as well with M'44. That's not to say that M'44 is a bad game, it's just that CC:A is a better game.

3. Look at the BattleLoremasters website posted above, and pay attention to where BattleLore is headed. That might sway your opinion one way or another. I tried to hold out for more unit types on BattleLore, but I just couldn't. DOW's original units weren't my cup of tea to say the least. Weird and humorous rather than fun and humorous.

4. Threedub, you're a platypus? You got both UO and OSU flags flying on your microbadges. Not many of us willing to go for both teams...

5. I also have to suggest maybe thinking about a different direction. If it's a wargame your boys want, there's lots of those, even fantasy ones like Wizard Kings or War of the Ring just to have something different in the house.
 
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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I got M44 as a gift in 2004 (BTW, that made me discover BGG...), and my kids liked it a bit, we did play some games, but I found the tile setup tedious too (even during play!).

Then I got CCA for me. I have never played M44 since, though I'll keep it just because it was the first I had, but I think CCA is the best of the system far beyond the others. To my surprise, my boys (8 and 12) like CCA a lot more too! The very first games may be harder, but once they are used to the units it offers many more choices per turn and, as someone said above, it "feels" better. My kids would have never played GBoH with me, for example, but CCA they do. And I can share my other hobby with them, ancient history.

The last part of the story: we offered BattleLore to the 12 yo when it came out, they both like LotR a lot too, expecting an instantaneous hit, but the box is in the shelf completely unplayed... I don't know what it is that failed, maybe after their CCA experience, with almost no terrain tiles and wooden blocks far easier to move, they found BL less easy to play. I don't know. The 8 yo sometimes plays with the minis, but not the game. I guess that reflects one of the differences, CCA is more about the game, BL and M44 is more about the minis [EDIT: this is the way my kids feel when comparing the three designs!!!].

Concerning setup, most of the CCA scenarios have no terrain tiles. If you store your blocks separated by troop types, the setup is much faster than any other of the series. But you have to think of a storage solution...
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Kevin Duke
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Storage solution...
of which there are MANY threads here!
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Todd Rewoldt
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franchi wrote:
I guess that reflects one of the differences, CCA is more about the game, BL and M44 is more about the minis.


Hey now, I consider that a cheap shot Preferring one game over another I won't argue, but there is plenty going on in both M44 and BL besides looking good kiss
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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Todd, yes it is a cheap shot! laugh

I like the whole series, I think they are all above 8, but for me CCA is 10. My "shot" was more about trying to explain the particular reaction my kids have had about the three games. The absence of minis in CCA lets them see and appreciate better the game itself, while when they open the other two they prefer playing with the minis (the 8 yo mostly) than with the rules... I would have really loved them to like the other two games too, we would have had more gaming opportunities!
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Carl Deaton
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Sigrdrifa wrote:

4. Threedub, you're a platypus? You got both UO and OSU flags flying on your microbadges. Not many of us willing to go for both teams...


That's what happens when you root for the Ducks growing up, graduate from Beaverville, and are married to someone with diplomas from both.

In truth, I'm a Duck fan but enjoy seeing the Beavs be successful as long as it isn't bad for Oregon. I even toyed with the idea of rooting for the Beavs in last years Civil War football game (Ducks couldn't really improve their standing, while Beavs could have gone to the Rose Bowl). However, when that opening kickoff sailed into the air I couldn't help myself but cheer for the Green and Yellow.
 
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Todd Rewoldt
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franchi wrote:
I guess that reflects one of the differences, CCA is more about the game, BL and M44 is more about the minis [EDIT: this is the way my kids feel when comparing the three designs!!!].


 
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David
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I've sold M44 since I purchased CCA. It just doesn't cut the mustard compared to this classic.
 
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