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World War II: European Theater of Operations» Forums » General

Subject: Which edition is 1st (oldest), TSR or SPI? rss

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Susan Murphy
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Thanks!
 
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Kristian Madsen
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Since TSR bought the remains of SPI, I'd say the latter.

/kgm
 
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suPUR DUEper
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SPI made one in 1973. World War II: European Theater of Operations, 1939-45

TSR came out with the same title in two editions World War II: European Theater of Operations
The older one looks like this:


The new one looks like this:
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suPUR DUEper
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Oh, and Decision Games updated it yet again
Advanced European Theater of Operations

It looks like this:


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Steven Bucey
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An important note, the SPI game and the TSR game resemble each other in name and topic only. They are entirely different games. TSR simply used the title and the SPI logo for their game. The hex scale is different. The turn scale is different. The unit scale is different. The design of the game mechanics are fundamentally different. Saying the TSR game is a redesign of the SPI game is like saying Red Star Rising is a redesign of Stalingrad. The Decision Games version, however, is strongly based on the TSR game.

If you're looking to buy one, I would strongly not recommend the SPI game. The rules do not work.
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Susan Murphy
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Thank you, everyone! You've been immensely helpful.
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suPUR DUEper
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cratex wrote:

If you're looking to buy one, I would strongly not recommend the SPI game. The rules do not work.


What rules don't work?
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Steven Bucey
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It has been a few years since I played it and I sold it shortly there after, so I can't give a lot of detail. However, my friend and I had basic questions we couldn't find answers to in the rules. "How is a country conquered?" was one such. The combat didn't make sense -- you didn't really defend because attacks only caused damage to the defender, and you couldn't attack unless you had more strength points than the defender.

In particular, the Germans can win the game without ever invading the USSR, and there's nothing the Allied player can do about it. Then the Germans could guarantee a win by keeping the war with the USSR a limited war and building up sufficiently large defensive positions in the east.



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Richard Dudley
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The old version of the SPI/TSR game (box with the flaming swastika) has 800 counters. This is the one I own.

I don't have the updated/expanded version of the SPI/TSR game but that has 1200 counters - they're the ones illustrated on the 6 x 200 countersheet scans, above.

It's been 20 years since I played it so cannot comment. I used to have the original SPI version and liked it so much I upgraded to the SPI/TSR version.

Perhaps I should have another go at this?

Cheers
Richard
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Daniel Berger
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I recently traded for the TSR version, not realizing there were 2 different versions of it. I got the "old" TSR version.

Can anyone please summarize the differences between the two TSR versions?
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Mike Stoddart
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Is it worth picking up a copy with the swastika oh the front, the TSR version? Or is the newest version the best?
 
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Steven Bucey
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At one time I owned both TSR versions, and between the two I definitely thought the second version the better of the two.

(see TedW's post above for pictures of the SPI version and the two TSR versions)

I have never looked at the DG version, so I can't comment on it. In any case, be sure to NOT pick up the SPI version.
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Tony Doran
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I agree that the second TSR version is the best of the two TSR versions, and the older SPI version is to be avoided.

I will add that the DG version (AETO) is excellent as well ( it is my favorite wargame-in 40 years of gaming). But it is far more complex than the TSR game, becase it has more counters and lots of optional rules. I still have and play the TSR version on occasion, but I do like AETO and APTO better.
 
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