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Fields of Fire» Forums » Rules

Subject: questions on Bunkers,Pillboxes rss

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martin baville
France
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First of all, thanks for spending time to read and (hopefully!) try to help ( please forgive my lousy english).

Let us assume in all cases that a Good Order German squad occupies a bunker.
( cases A, B and C are independent)

A. Considering cards excluding their own , they cannot have a LOS to anything ouside their direction of fire ( ie 1 among 8 ) Yes/No?.

B. Let us assume the Germans have placed a VOF in an adjacent card ( with a PDF), and that Good order US units move into their card:
B.1. Do the Germans delete the current VOF ( and the PDF) to place a VOF into their own card? ( ie can/must they fire into their own card) Yes/No?
Can the Germans attempt to make a ( same card) (hand-) grenade attack
B.21 :triggered by the "enemy activity hierarchy"Yes/No?
B.22: as a free reaction to a grenade attack made by the US units)Yes/No?

C. Let us assume that the german squad is "under fire from a different direction than its own PDF" ( referring to the "Enemy Defensive Activity ") and that this incoming US fire comes from outside the german bunker fire arc.
As it cannot shift fire, this "Enemy Defensive Activity" case is skipped, and one searches further down to find a case that matches ( and do nothing if none is found) Yes/No?


 
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D Summers
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Potomac Falls
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My thoughts (the way I'd play it):

sambot wrote:

A. Considering cards excluding their own , they cannot have a LOS to anything ouside their direction of fire ( ie 1 among 8 ) Yes/No?.

Yes, units in the bunker can only fire along the LOS as indicated by the bunker placement.

Quote:

B. Let us assume the Germans have placed a VOF in an adjacent card ( with a PDF), and that Good order US units move into their card:
B.1. Do the Germans delete the current VOF ( and the PDF) to place a VOF into their own card? ( ie can/must they fire into their own card) Yes/No?

Yes they can, and yes they must fire on the units in their own card per VOF rules and LOS Rules (LOS is reciprocal).

Quote:

Can the Germans attempt to make a ( same card) (hand-) grenade attack
B.21 :triggered by the "enemy activity hierarchy"Yes/No?
B.22: as a free reaction to a grenade attack made by the US units)Yes/No?

Yes, and Yes. I don't see why not. Units in a bunker cannot fire mortars, rockets, RPG's ... but there are no rules I'm aware of prohibiting hand grenades.

Quote:
C. Let us assume that the german squad is "under fire from a different direction than its own PDF" ( referring to the "Enemy Defensive Activity ") and that this incoming US fire comes from outside the german bunker fire arc.
As it cannot shift fire, this "Enemy Defensive Activity" case is skipped, and one searches further down to find a case that matches ( and do nothing if none is found) Yes/No?

Good question. I think just reading the rules you are correct, they would skip the shift fire action and see if any other cases apply.
 
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Matt R
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As far as enemy activity checks go, isn't there a check higher up on the chart that describes being in cover on a U.S. occupied card? I think that would take preference, so it should end up making them either fall back or throw grenades.
 
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martin baville
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thanks for your answers
Matt: ok , I guess I played it wrong.
But anyway, attempts to make grenade attacks do not interfere with processes regarding VOF/PDF ( as far as I understood!), so the question on VOF/PDF shifting remains ( as well as for the "No Action" event for the case you referred to anyway) .
David: I raised the question because it seems odd that US units, especially in front of a SPOTTED bunker, would systematically move into the bunker's card to end up and stay in its arc of fire, knowing that they are able to stay out of arm's way when being in an adjacent card outside that arc of fire.
Actual german bunkers built with a limited arc of fire were deadly traps when assaulted from the back, as the occupants were unaware of what exactly was going on outside their arc of fire. I would have expected VOF/PDF not to change, nor grenade attack to be possible unless loosing at least part of the cover value of the bunker ( say they are going out into an access trench ).
Anyway, I will play as you said, as I am not trying here to prove that the designer of the game got it wrong, but on the contrary to understand what he meant, so as to be able to play his game as he intended.
As a ( bad ) excuse for me to try and go around ( bunkers and ) bunkers rules, I had to dislodge a german squad+HMG in a bunker on a +3 cover card which was one of my objective; it took me 3 turns and 8 successful grenade attacks to wind up on turn 10 with a german fire team hit and converted to litter and the ( last german ) litter team being hit... and converting to a fire team ( hysterical laugh here! ) -.
 
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Matt R
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Actually, bunkers and pillboxes do have firing arcs. They are supposed to be placed so that they are facing towards the general U.S. direction of advancement, and enemy units inside them cannot fire in other directions.

One thing that has somewhat bothered me though is that the defensive bonuses of a bunker or pillbox should not be counted when successfully "hit" by a hand grenade. My understanding is that fragmentation grenades' affects were actually increased when exploding inside a bunker or pillbox as the blast and the shrapnel would basically be "shaped" and concentrated inside them. But this game basically balances out the NCM of a successfully thrown hand grenade at a bunker or pillbox instead. (A bunker is +3, and a pillbox is +4, U.S. grenades act as a -4 VoF). Then again, if you can get any additional successful grenade throws, then you'll start to see some serious NCM's adding up.

I also wish the U.S. units could bring up flamethrowers (especially against fortified positions), but the game is extremely fun (and already complicated) as is.

These could all be house rules but for now I'm playing with what I believe the designer's intent is...
 
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