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Subject: Ladder and hut extension minor improvements rss

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Kasper Baack
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Might have been asked before, but cant be bothered to scroll through 51 pages of rules questions.

Can you combine the ladder and any of the minor improvement hut extension cards (wood, clay, stone)?

I.e. do those hut extensions cards count as extending your room and do you get a discount of 1 reed or do they count as minor improvements and as they are not in the list specified on the ladder card do you need to pay full amount (1 reed and 5 wood/ 4 clay/ 3 stone)?
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B C Z
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Card text and/or reference numbers would be helpful in order to answer this question.

The Compendium probably has your answer and that is organized by card reference number.

That said, here's the text from the Compendium which I highly recommend downloading and having available:

Ladder I91
You need 1 less reeds to extend or renovate your
home or to build theWatermill I103, Half-timbered
House E21, Chicken Coop I84, Holiday House I71,
Mansion K144, or Corn Storehouse I86.
) Can be used for every room you build, if you build
more than 1 room.
) If you also have other cards that reduce costs,
e.g. the Thatcher E157, you may use all of
these cards for the same action.
 
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Kasper Baack
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thanks for the reply, but it doesn't answer my question.
 
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Matthew Giglia
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Can you comment that You're question is:

Can the ladder be used to decrease the amount of reed needed to play a minor improvement like "Clay Hut Extension" which allows you to extend your clay hut by one room immediatley for only the cost of the card? (four clay and one reed)

It took me a couple read throughs to see that this is what you were asking. So hopefully we can get a quick answer.

It is a very interesting question, and I honestly am not sure of the answer.
 
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Kasper Baack
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Found another thread with more or less the same question and it mentions the Ladder as well: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2901252#2901252

No clear answer sadly.
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Matthew Giglia
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Kasper wrote:
Found another thread with more or less the same question and it mentions the Ladder as well: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2901252#2901252

No clear answer sadly.


I just read through that other thread and I fall on the side that cards like the ladder do not reduce the price of minor improvements unless specifically stated that the card does so. Since the "clay hut extension" is a minor improvement, I'd say that the ladder doesn't reduce it's cost.

According to one of the posters in the other thread, Uwe is aware of the question, so hopefully he or Hanno will post something on one of these threads so that we can get a deffinitive answer.

Great question!


 
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B C Z
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I checked on the compendium for the extensions...

Sample:

Wooden Hut Extension I81
When you play this card, immediately extend your
wooden hut by 1 room. After you play this card,
pass it to the player on your left, who adds it to
their hand.
) You may use the Brushwood Roof K136, Clay
Roof E36, Ladder I91, Straw-thatched Roof
I99, Brushwood Collector K294, and Thatcher
E157 to change the cost of this card.
) You can also use the Carpenter E218 or Axe
E13 to change the cost of this card; the lower
price of the Wooden Hut Extension compared to
a regular room building action is not taken into
account in the new price. E.g. if you use the Carpenter,
you now need 2 reeds.
) When using the “Family Growth” action space,
it is not possible to build this improvement first,
and then use the new room to grow your family
in.

so it lists Ladder as legal to reduce cost.
 
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Rich P
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A similar question arose in a game I was playing the other day with Thatcher and Stone House Extension. I don't think they interact at all. The 'Extension' Minor Improvements don't strictly count as Extensions by the rules, even though the end result is the same. I would say the Ladder, Thatcher and similar cards can't help reduce their cost.
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Manos Konstantaras
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byronczimmer wrote:
I checked on the compendium for the extensions...
Do you mean the "Unofficial Agricola Compendium v4.0"?
If so, isn't that just a summary of certain players' opinions rather than actual rules?

If i remember correcly, the Extension minors state that "the hut/house costs you nothing, but you have to pay the costs of this card". Since the actual Extension costs you nothing, you cannot deduct materials from 0. The card is just a card, and it is not even listed in the Ladder's text.
Of-course one might say that when the card sais "extensions" it means these minors as well, so i am not 100% certain.
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Kasper Baack
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As stated in the other thread, the compendium is the writers or a group of writers opinion. I dont agree with it in this case either.
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Matthew Giglia
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Anything in italics from the compendium is the stated opionion of it's author and is not the direct result of a ruling by Uwe, Hanno or other authorities from Lookout Games. Therefore anything in italics from the compendium can still be up for debate.

If the mention of using the ladder is written in italics for the clay hut extension then we cannot view this ruling as law or decisively corrct. That being said, we are still eternally grateful to the compendium's author for creating a source we may turn to for official rulings complied from this and other websites.

Hopefully threads like this one, or the afroementioned thread above will prompt Uwe or Hanno to provide a comment or ruling. As far as my "house rule" minor improvments do not decrease the cost of other major or minor improvments unless clearly stated in card.

My only concern is in online or tournament play, this question may arise amongst players who have no social ties binding them to one set of rulings.
 
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Paul Thomas
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fragilehalos wrote:
Anything in italics from the compendium is the stated opionion of it's author and is not the direct result of a ruling by Uwe, Hanno or other authorities from Lookout Games. Therefore anything in italics from the compendium can still be up for debate.



I view the compendium as sort of the "Restatement of Agricola"... it's persuasive authority!

[waits for law students to get the joke]

[keeps waiting for someone to laugh]

[gives up and goes back to reading contract law casebook]
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Chen Goh
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Korko wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
I checked on the compendium for the extensions...
Do you mean the "Unofficial Agricola Compendium v4.0"?
If so, isn't that just a summary of certain players' opinions rather than actual rules?

If i remember correcly, the Extension minors state that "the hut/house costs you nothing, but you have to pay the costs of this card". Since the actual Extension costs you nothing, you cannot deduct materials from 0. The card is just a card, and it is not even listed in the Ladder's text.
Of-course one might say that when the card sais "extensions" it means these minors as well, so i am not 100% certain.


I very much agree with what's said here, but I've started to use the compendium more and more (i'm playing mostly online nowadays) as it's the easiest way to settle any disputes. Ironically, one of the earliest disputes I had to settle was this exact one (maybe it was the thatcher and the room extensions, same thing). The person whom I was debating with was schwza, one of the finalists in some recent online Agricola tournament. So, if he's playing by the rules in the compendium, I'd say the usage of the compendium would be pretty widespread, and becoming the norm of online Agricola.

sure, some of the clarifications in the compendium aren't endorsed by hanno or uwe, but i'd wish you good luck in settling some disputes while playing agricola online.

 
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