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Here I Stand» Forums » Rules

Subject: Debater bonus applied by action or impulse rss

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Mike Gallagher
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This seems like its a loser, but the rule on only one debater bonus per impulse for Ref/CR attempt or translation seems wrong.
From 18.3
Each power (Protestant and Papacy) may only use one debater’s
bonus in a given impulse to affect Reformation or Counter Reformation
attempts or biblical translations.

I originally read it to mean a restriction to use a debater only once, but that is not what it says
It seems that if you do two different attempts at R/CR you should be able to apply two different debaters--different events different debaters.

I don't get the play balance on this-- it would very difficult to to ever use more than two and the expenditure would hurt the player in other ways

Anyone play this wrong, or should I just claim dyslexia?
Mike G

 
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Matthew Barratt
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As I understand it, you can only use one debater's bonus per impulse and that bonus can only effect one action.

So, for example, if you spend 4CPs to do the publish treatise action twice, one publish treatise action will have to be done without a debater bonus.
 
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Ed Beach
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Matthew has the correct interpretation. One debater bonus per impulse, period. Now more than one debater may get COMMITTED in an impulse (say if one was committed to satisfy the conditions of an event), but only 1 debater's bonus can be applied.

The main game mechanic reason for this is so you can't protect weak debaters by committing them in the same impulse as a strong one (say Calvin and Olivetan, who you could both commit for only 3 CP). If you want to use a weak debater first, you take the risk of him being burnt at the stake. Some of those weak guys have nice bonuses, but I wanted to be sure it was a double-edged sword to use them.
 
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nicola caroli
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Yes BUT, at least looking at wargameroom implementation, a commited debater bonus applies for all actions of the impulse. E.g. a reformation bonus (extra die) would apply to two different Pubblish Treatise actions, or a PT and the rolls from a bible translation, etc.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Wargameroom is implementing the rules wrong then: a given debater bonus only applies to one action.

This is more obvious with some debater bonuses than others. For example, Tetzel: obviously he doesn't add 1 CP to St.Peters each time the Papacy burns books that round. Or Luther, he doesn't get to add 1 Cp to the translation every time in an impulse the Protestant takes the translation action... but its true of every debater. You can't use Bucer on both German and French Bible translations in the same impulse, useful though it would be...
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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Ed Beach wrote:
but only 1 debater's bonus can be applied.

One question. Rules restruct use debaters' bonuses to affect Ref/CR attempts or translations. And what about Loyola?
 
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Greg Forster
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"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning" - Dr. Reiner Knizia
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Denis Cobrousev wrote:
Ed Beach wrote:
but only 1 debater's bonus can be applied.

One question. Rules restruct use debaters' bonuses to affect Ref/CR attempts or translations. And what about Loyola?


Good catch. I think in the past we've talked as though only the "passive" debater bonuses (Eck, Aleander and Contarini) were not included in this rule. But it looks like Loyola also isn't covered. Ed?
 
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