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Barbarossa: Kiev to Rostov, 1941» Forums » General

Subject: Just got KtR rss

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Peter
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Wow the package arrived today (finally!) and I have to say I'm very impressed with the production quality of the components...I mean I was blown away. Love the setup charts (like they were in Roads to Leningrad). To me KtR quality of production is right there at the top of the list shared with stuff like ASL VotG HASL or Beyond Valor 3rd edition.

Thanks GMT!!!

Now I hope AGS will hopefully get reprinted on day and I want my Stalingrad module as well
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Justin Hoffman
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Considering the hideously slow pace that Army Group North is picking up reprint pre-orders, it's quite possible that it will be years before you see AGS even hit the reprint list, let alone make its numbers. However, Ebay may actually be your friend here for Army Group South as the prices seem to have dropped back down to the range of the $90 retail price for unpunched copies. (I know GMT lists it AGS's original MSRP as $60 on their website; but there were brand new copies still sitting at 2 different local shops within the last 8 months priced at either $90 or $99 [and neither shop discounts MSRP pricing, nor do they bump prices up once games go OOP, which is a bit of a plus].

The 2 recent (last 30 days) ebay sales were for unpunched copies--1 ziplock, 1 boxed--with final prices of ~$108. I sold a still-sealed AGS about 6 months ago for $115; so there's not been a lot of movement on those prices. Same story with Army Group North. Only AG Center [and perhaps Typhoon, though I haven't seen one of those come up for quite a while, so I don't know the trend there] will still cost you a mortgage payment...
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John O'Haver
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I've been told by the designer that fewer Army Group Center games were printed than AG South and AG North.
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Justin Hoffman
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scribidinus wrote:
I've been told by the designer that fewer Army Group Center games were printed than AG South and AG North.


I appreciate that little nugget of info as I've always found it curious that AGC commands nearly 2.5-3x the price of the other 2 OOP "Army Group" titles. At the same time I listed that AGS mentioned in the previous post, I also listed an unpunched AGC with an opening bid of $75 or so and an "I can't imagine it'll sell at this price but what the hell" Buy It Now of $289 shipped--it wasn't up more than 9 hours before someone snapped it up.
 
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Todd Pytel
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dogmatix wrote:
I also listed an unpunched AGC with an opening bid of $75 or so and an "I can't imagine it'll sell at this price but what the hell" Buy It Now of $289 shipped--it wasn't up more than 9 hours before someone snapped it up.

Prices look to have gone up on AGC since KtR came out. The last one on eBay went for $320.

As for KtR, I agree - it's production values are spectactular. Not in a flashy, ooh-ahh way, but just very well thought-out and functional. I would go so far as to say it's the best-produced wargame I own. Not the prettiest, but the best.
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Peter
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To me KtR shows how the Desktop publishing has improved over the last 8 years or so. I agree with Todd the Graphics in KtR are not flashy...but professional. Like the fact that there are 2 small scenarios and they both have their own maps. Those two small maps and all the charts are really of great quality, I have to say I like this kind of production quality.

One question: So the game has two small scenarios, how I plan to learn the game is to start with Scenario 1 and read the Tutorial in the Play Book. Also follow the Sequence of Play...any other suggestions guys?

Thanks for your help!
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Todd Pytel
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JG53_Jaguar wrote:
To me KtR shows how the Desktop publishing has improved over the last 8 years or so.

I'd hardly call it "desktop publishing." I don't know what GMT uses, but I believe MMP uses InDesign, which is a standard professional layout program. I'd have to think GMT uses something similar. I think it's more accurate to say that the niche of wargame publishers is finally starting to adopt the same tools that more mainstream publishers have been using for the last 10 years or so.

Quote:
Like the fact that there are 2 small scenarios and they both have their own maps.

Agreed. This is a really nice touch. For the materials cost of one double-sided color print ($1 maybe?) plus some design time, it lets a new owner get right to playing, rather than lay out maps, sort through various play aids, etc. I would love to see this become common practice.

Quote:
One question: So the game has two small scenarios, how I plan to learn the game is to start with Scenario 1 and read the Tutorial in the Play Book. Also follow the Sequence of Play...any other suggestions guys?

That's basically fine. Play the two little scenarios first. The Rostov one is pretty much straight combat with very little maneuver. The second one (Scenario 4, I think?) shows off the movement system and turn sequence a bit more. From there do Scenario 3 (Battle on the Sea of Azov), which is larger and uses a few more rules, but still steers clear of supply and replacements.
 
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John O'Haver
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I've known Vance von Borries for almost 15 years. He's a hell of a nice guy. Richard Diem, his loyal play tester and proofreader, is my regular game opponent.

That said, that during the design process, Vance hand draws and colors his maps on blank hex sheets and draws his own counters. I've often made color copies of these hand drawn maps so he doesn't risk losing originals when he sends them to the GMT art department in the mail.
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Peter
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scribidinus wrote:
I've known Vance von Borries for almost 15 years. He's a hell of a nice guy. Richard Diem, his loyal play tester and proofreader, is my regular game opponent.

That said, that during the design process, Vance hand draws and colors his maps on blank hex sheets and draws his own counters. I've often made color copies of these hand drawn maps so he doesn't risk losing originals when he sends them to the GMT art department in the mail.


Cool stuff, thanks for sharing!
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