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Subject: If you're a fan of Flying Frog you HAVE to listen to this rss

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Karl
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This is a very revealing trade show interview with Scott Hill, from The Ogre Cave at http://ogrecave.com/newsupdate/?p=28

Here are some highlights -- I'll just report the facts, and give opinion later.

Something Wicked -- four new villains, and a new gameboard which doubles the current play area. It was a "major undertaking" with lots of makeup, artwork, etc., and will be available this summer.

AToE Hero Pack -- four new heroes, with character sheets and a few new cards.

LNOE: there are three new products.

Survival of the Fittest: three new decks, two for heroes and one for zombies. There's the "Unique Items" deck for specific items, with "antique revolver" as the example. A "Survival Tactics" deck -- two examples of cards: "duct tape," used to combine weapons and "Plan B" which states "Run!" The zombie deck is "Grave Weapons" which is a deck of weapons such as rusty axes, sickles, meat cleavers, machetes, pitch forks. Also things like "bloated body" and "wrapped in barbed wire" that make zombies "specifically vicious." $24.95 MSRP.

Zombies with Grave Weapons: specific zombie sculpts for use with "Grave Weapons" deck, with sculpts including a zombie holding a pitch fork and the "bloated body" zombie and the "wrapped in barbed wire" zombie. Seven new sculpts in two colours (for fourteen zombies). &24.95 MSRP.

Hero Pack 1: Four new characters with a "couple cards for good measure" Characters are Victor the Escaped Prisoner, Jade the Highschool Outcast, Mr. Goddard the Chemistry Teacher (based on MacGyver) and Stacy the intrepid reporter. $24.95 MSRP. All three will be out for Halloween.

And finally, the newly announced Invasion From Outer Space: the Martian Game. Coming out early 2010. Classic 50's style dome-head, bug-eyed aliens fighting "carnies" -- circus folk become the world's first line of defense. The aliens fight the likes of a Ring Master, Contortionist, Human Cannonball, Fire Breather, Bearded Woman, and "Jo-Jo the Dancing Bear," a seven-foot bear in a pink tutu whom you can play as. The game uses the LNOE ruleset, which means the games are compatible -- Woodenvale can battle martians, zombies can battle martians, and even all four "factions" can fight each other.
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Very cool news indeed - though I am more excited about the AToE expansions than anything else.

Plus - the theme of the alien game...circus freaks versus martians? And it is going to have the same ruleset as LNoE?

Just seems like they are trying to be crazy for the sake of being crazy, without anything really "new".
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Wulf Corbett
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theconcerned wrote:
Something Wicked -- four new villains, and a new gameboard which doubles the current play area. It was a "major undertaking" with lots of makeup, artwork, etc., and will be available this summer.

AToE Hero Pack -- four new heroes, with character sheets and a few new cards.

Wait... there are no Heroes in Something Wicked now?
 
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Karl
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
theconcerned wrote:
Something Wicked -- four new villains, and a new gameboard which doubles the current play area. It was a "major undertaking" with lots of makeup, artwork, etc., and will be available this summer.

AToE Hero Pack -- four new heroes, with character sheets and a few new cards.

Wait... there are no Heroes in Something Wicked now?


That's how it appears . . .
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Jason Hill
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Hey Guys,

Sorry I haven't been around too much recently, but we have been really swamped (and will continue to be for a while it seems). I just saw that the Ogre Cave interview went up and thought I would clarify a couple things.

The Something Wicked Expansion for ATOE is a 'Full Boxed' Expansion (same size box as the base game) and does include 4 new Heroes as well as 4 new Villains and the rest of the contents mentioned. The Hero Pack 1 Expansion is one of the newer 'Small Box' Expansions and comes with 4 Heroes, 10 Cards, and a New Villain... The vile 'Necromancer'. I don't think you will be disappointed with either of these new sets!

This also means that with both new products as well as the base game, there will be a total of 16 ATOE Heroes to play as well as 10 Villains to hunt (including the Delion Dryad found on the official website).


As for 'Invasion From Outer Space', The Martian Game, which I will just touch on briefly; it is a fully stand alone game that uses the LNOE 'Game Engine' which means that it uses a lot of the same core mechanics and feel. It does not use the exact same rules, as the Martians and the Circus Heroes have a different theme and play style from either the Zombies or the Small Town Heroes from LNOE. The games will however be compatible with one another.

Invasion From Outer Space has been in test since 2004 (you may remember the 'Martians are Coming!' tagline hidden in the back of the LNOE rulebook from a couple years ago) and has it's own distinct feel and theme. It is currently scheduled for a first quarter 2010 release, though you can expect more info over the coming months.

Something Wicked and the ATOE Hero Pack 1 are scheduled for release in late Summer (GenCon Indy timeframe).

- Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions




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Wulf Corbett
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jchill7 wrote:
The Something Wicked Expansion for ATOE is a 'Full Boxed' Expansion (same size box as the base game) and does include 4 new Heroes as well as 4 new Villains and the rest of the contents mentioned.

Now that's better! I'll go for that, but I'm not sure about al the small expansions for AToE and LNoE - if they appear in my FLGS I probably will, but if they never appear in the UK (as an increasing number of small game stuff doesn't) I'd have to get really good postage rates...
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C Lloyd
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jchill7 wrote:
Hey Guys,

Sorry I haven't been around too much recently, but we have been really swamped (and will continue to be for a while it seems). I just saw that the Ogre Cave interview went up and thought I would clarify a couple things...

Awesome news! Thanks for posting this info Jason. And keep up the great work over there at FFG!
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Barry Kendall
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The new LNOE stuff sounds great.

But the wind went right out of my sails with the details on the Martians game. Bug-Eyed Martians, great.

But . . . circus carnies as humanity's defenders?

No. Just NO.

No local sheriff. No delegation of townies. No throbbing noises from a crater. No Heat Ray.

No National Guard, no Air Force jets, no Scientist, Scientist's Daughter, or Intrepid Government Agent.

No annoying Reporter, stalwart Truck Driver, feisty Grandmother, or Cute Little Child.

Instead, sword swallowers, contortionists and bearded ladies.

Yeah, they'll scare the Martians, all right.

I'm going to hold on very tight to my West End Bug-Eyed Monsters game.

Dang.

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Wulf Corbett
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Barry Kendall wrote:
But the wind went right out of my sails with the details on the Martians game. Bug-Eyed Martians, great.

But . . . circus carnies as humanity's defenders?

No. Just NO.
Yeah, not what I expected. Some cliches are sacred. New isn't always better. Still, if it ties in with LNoE, that'll be easily sorted.
Quote:
I'm going to hold on very tight to my West End Bug-Eyed Monsters game.
Me too
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myles
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I'll just vote circus carnies and Martians are great in my book. The only thing missing is a CLOWN?! Bah!
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Sean P
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Anyone else get the vibe that Twilight Creations is trying to keep up with Flying Frog with their own Martian invasion game?

Zombies vs. Martians...ahh..why hasn't this happened before?

I guess I should say thank you to Jason. Unfortunately, my Visa card started to weep as I read this post.
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Great_Mazinga wrote:
I'll just vote circus carnies and Martians are great in my book. The only thing missing is a CLOWN?! Bah!


Which side would the clown fight on? After all, clowns are evil.
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C Lloyd
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I'm scared of clowns

 
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Jason Hill
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Barry Kendall wrote:
No local sheriff. No delegation of townies. No throbbing noises from a crater. No Heat Ray.

No National Guard, no Air Force jets, no Scientist, Scientist's Daughter, or Intrepid Government Agent.

No annoying Reporter, stalwart Truck Driver, feisty Grandmother, or Cute Little Child.


I think you will find that we have ... 'many things' in the works.

- Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions

"The Future is coming."
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Ben Boersma
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Jason - thanks for the replies.

I too think that Martians vs Carnies is rather odd and I must admit I was quite disappointed hearing about it.

The thing that really got me though (and I suspect many others) is the approach to the Last Night on Earth expansions you have listed. Splitting them into three small (very expensive for their size) expansions. You've completely lost me with this.

The contents adds up to almost a big box expansion. If they were packaged as a big box expansion like Growing Hunger they would be sold at $40ish, splitting it into three and selling at $24.95 brings the price up to $75! Ridiculous, and I think you will lose a lot of sales that way.

I suppose I'm just looking for some reasoning behind the decision? As it stands, I won't be buying these at that price.

Cheers,
Ben.
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Wulf Corbett
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jchill7 wrote:
I think you will find that we have ... 'many things' in the works.
But the question is, why do the things all come in separate boxes?
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William Gaskill
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I'm really into AToE so that expansion(s) just leaves me
waiting to throw plastic.

The Martian Game just strikes me as ODD,its the circus
thingsurprise.I guess I have to see this thing before
I decide.

OD
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Well, I think it sounds good. LNOE and ATOE do a really nice job with storytelling. Even though the heroes in each game are somewhat "cliche," they all have their own charm and personality, and I'm looking forward to seeing that same amount of charm in the carnie characters.

I mean, how many games let me play as a carnie battling Martians? It seems quirky but at the same time it's very appealing.
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Jason Hill
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Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
Jason - thanks for the replies.

I too think that Martians vs Carnies is rather odd and I must admit I was quite disappointed hearing about it.

The thing that really got me though (and I suspect many others) is the approach to the Last Night on Earth expansions you have listed. Splitting them into three small (very expensive for their size) expansions. You've completely lost me with this.

The contents adds up to almost a big box expansion. If they were packaged as a big box expansion like Growing Hunger they would be sold at $40ish, splitting it into three and selling at $24.95 brings the price up to $75! Ridiculous, and I think you will lose a lot of sales that way.

I suppose I'm just looking for some reasoning behind the decision? As it stands, I won't be buying these at that price.

Cheers,
Ben.


Hi Ben,

I think that you will find that the contents of the three LNOE 'Small Box' Expansions add up to significantly more than what you saw in Growing Hunger. I realize we have not released the full contents list yet, so you don't have the full details to base your opinions on. This really is NOT 'one expansion' that has been split; it is two indivual Expansions (LNOE Hero Pack 1 and Survival of the Fittest) as well as a companion Miniature set of Zombies with Grave Weapons. These three products would not have been possible as a single Expansion (it would have to have been seriously reduced in size and/or would have cost more than the base game itself!).

The 'Small Box' Expansions are meant to be stand alone and are a natural way for us to continue releasing expansions for our existing games while still producing and releasing new games at the same time. That's not to say that we won't be releasing more 'Big Box' Expansions; they will just be released further apart.

All of our decisions are based primarily on what we would want as gamers. Of course, this is always tempered with what we can reasonably afford to produce and release... and still stay in business. As a small Game Publisher (and a group of life-long gamers) we strive to create Games and Expansions of the highest quality both in production as well as game content and we look forward to continuing this long into the future.

- Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions





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Ben Boersma
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Thanks for the reply again.

I have no doubt Jason, that you are trying to produce the best game that you can. I can see that with the quality of both the gameplay and components for LNoE. They are fantastic.

And if the full contents is yet to be revealed, I will hold my opinions until then. But it would have to be significant to justify the price.

In regards to the miniature pack though, I still fail to see the understanding of why the miniatures are sold seperately to the rules for them. I am only making an assumption here, but it sounds as though if one zombie is represented through the cards, you represent him/her/it on the board with the mini - seems like most people would want them - why not package with the rules?

Also $24.95 (US!) for 14 plastic miniatures when on your site you have 21 zombie miniatures for $18... so unless there is some other seriously great content in there...

Thanks again Jason.
Cheers,
Ben.
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I also HATE the circus idea for the martian game and I most likely will not bother with it. Which is too bad, as a martian invasion 50s styles sounded like fun, but stupid circus carnies! yuk Make the carnies an expansion.

Also, even though you will be able to get all those expansion cheaper at online vendors it just seems like they ought to have been packaged as a single unit. $75msrp seems a bit much for what has been described, but I will wait and see what it actually contains when it finally comes out.
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Have you watched the TV series Carnivale? It is great! I bet the new game is partially inspired from this series, as ATOE is from Sleepy Hollow, and will have the same cool atmosphere!
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Jason Hill
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Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
In regards to the miniature pack though, I still fail to see the understanding of why the miniatures are sold seperately to the rules for them. I am only making an assumption here, but it sounds as though if one zombie is represented through the cards, you represent him/her/it on the board with the mini - seems like most people would want them - why not package with the rules?

Also $24.95 (US!) for 14 plastic miniatures when on your site you have 21 zombie miniatures for $18... so unless there is some other seriously great content in there...


The Survival of the Fittest Expansion includes the Grave Weapons deck as well as counters to place under your Zombies to show what Grave Weapon they have. This works perfectly well in gameplay (much like Zombie Heroes do currently).

The Zombies with Grave Weapons Miniature Set is an OPTIONAL companion to this which includes unique miniatures to represent the Zombies with different weapons in hand. It contains two sets of the 7 new UNIQUE Zombie sculpts (7 in Green and 7 in Brown).

Miniatures are quite expensive to produce, especially when cast in plastic. This new miniature set more than triples the number of unique Zombie miniatures for the game (there were previously three unique sculpts in the base LNOE game). They are not needed to play with the new deck, but obviously it is much cooler if you can use a unique mini to actually represent your cool Zombie with a 'Rusty Axe' on the board. This would NOT have been economically possible if we tried to have it all in one Expansion set. It would be just the counters.

The reason we are able to sell the sets of Zombies on our website for such a low price is that they are extra sets of the same Zombie minis that were already produced for the LNOE base game. It really is not the same thing.

It's funny because I spent most of my life on the other side of this kind of question as a gamer and consumer. Having spent the last several years as a game publisher, it really changes your perspective on things. It's much easier to see why game companies make the decisions that they do when you go through all of the behind the scenes process.

- Jason

Jason C. Hill
Flying Frog Productions

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Ben Boersma
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Again Jason thanks very much for the reply.

You make a fair point in regards to including counters. I knew I should have waited a bit longer to comment. blush

I will now wait to see what the exact contents are of all the expansion packs before commenting further.

Thanks for being so accomadating with the questions Jason - much appreciated.

Cheers,
Ben.
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Good luck with these new expansions and the martian game. I will wait to see Invasion From Outer Space before passing judgement. I'm not wild about the circus heroes, but your track record earns you the benefit of the doubt. I hope you are doing the right thing.
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