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Subject: Rulebook proof online rss

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Mark Mahaffey
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A 60-page PDF proof of the rulebook is now online for your perusal, at http://fifthcolumngames.co.uk/Rules.html

Please direct any comments/corrections you may see to this thread. We will keep that discussion open for week or two, at Dan's discretion. Thanks, and enjoy!
 
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Dan Hodges
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Guys,


Over on the Comsim. forum we've had a couple of comments that the black on blue format for the rules might make it tough for some people to read.

Does anyone on here have any view on this?



Dan
 
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Wulf Corbett
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It's not too bad, but the font is a bit small.on screen. It might be better printed. Considering the amount of 'white space' (well, pale blue space), the font could be made clearer.
 
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Jack Defevers
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Dan Hodges wrote:
we've had a couple of comments that the black on blue format for the rules might make it tough for some people to read.


I actually find the black on blue quite pleasing.
 
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Dan Hodges
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What Mark is planning to do is have a look at lightening the background a bit.

He seems to think that might do the trick of balancing the aesthetics, (people seem to like how the blue looks), with the practicality of actually being able to read the thing, (which would obviosuly be a plus!)

Doesn't seem to be mucch preference for dice colour, so I'm thinking of going with Red & Blue, (or maybe white...decisions, decisions...)



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Wulf Corbett
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Dan Hodges wrote:
Doesn't seem to be mucch preference for dice colour, so I'm thinking of going with Red & Blue, (or maybe white...decisions, decisions...)
Red & blue with white pips?
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Ian Wakeham
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Dan,

Here are a few suggestions which I've posted over on ConsimWorld but which I'm cross-posting here in case some of the guys don't visit CSW:

1. Reordering the rules.

The rules currently are divided into distinct subject related sections. However, the order does not follow the sequence of play. For example, the first action each turn is to roll for the weather. In the rules, the weather is section 19.0. Also air combat is treated before naval combat in the rules but occurs the other way round in the sequence of play. Following the sequence of play alongside the rules will work but would it make better sense simply to order the rules as per the SoP? This would avoid confusion in rule sections which begin "At the start of each turn..." when you really mean at the start of a particular phase/segment each turn.

Re-ordering would also require incorporating the San Carlos deployment and air phases into the relevant standard sections but indicating when they come into effect.

2. Components Section.

Do the rules require a separate components section with detailed explanation of board, tracks, tables, cards, counters and markers (and stating that an opaque container is required for random draws)? At the moment there are some of the counters and markers which are described briefly but not seen. I'm thinking particularly of the unit counters which if you have not seen the illustrated examples, you would not be aware that there are step loss indicators around each side of the counter (similar to the block wargames). Also, depending on the target audience, do you need any abbreviations on the counters explained - I'm thinking of a similar section in the Silent War rules?

3. Illustrated examples

It would increase the size of the rules exponentially but do some of the examples, but particularly the extended examples of play, require a few illustrations? It may be just that not having the pieces in front of me that it's more difficult for my 43 year old brain to visualise, particularly when things are being played out on the Combat Display or San Carlos Display.

4. Event Cards

These are all numbered and refer to a page in the Briefings Booklet with the details of the event, choices to be made and the consequences. After several plays of the game would players tire of referring back to the booklet or would they prefer a digest of the choices and impacts on each event card (similar to any CDG)?

Thanks

Ian
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Kristian Madsen
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In the taskforce display, references are made to a d12. I suppose this is an actual d12, not 2d6? (The reason I'm asking is that the task force display has a number of dots in the graphic under the respective numbers, which seem to indicate that there is a greater probability of rolling i.e. a 7 than a 12 result, which would be the case with the pseudo-bell curve distribution of the 2d6.)

I agree that the blue background could use a little lightening up.

Re: reordering to follow sequence of play. this might be a good idea, but if it will require too much work at this late stage (including the chance of introducing errors) I have absolutely no problem with the current approach.

Other than that, the rules look fine to me, but I haven't had the time to go through them more than a casual reading.

/kgm


 
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Ian Wakeham
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kgm3219 wrote:
In the taskforce display, references are made to a d12. I suppose this is an actual d12, not 2d6?


The reference is to a D12 (note the capital 'D') which is explained in the Notes section in the introduction on page 3 as being the rolling of two six-sided dice and adding the two together to determine the zone to be targeted. Note that the zones are numbered from 2 to 12. One of the dice will be a different colour to the other to decide later in the game whether San Carlos water is targeted instead of the Task Force (section 12.2.3).
 
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Dan Hodges
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Right, responding to some of the points above;

Ian –

Operation Sutton. Yes, there can be a maximum of 5 Operation Sutton cards on the Board at the start of the landings. These cards are generic, i.e. at this stage they do not relate to specific San Carlos events.

You conduct reconnaissance in the way you outline, except there’s no minimum or maximum limit to the number of vessels you deploy. In practice sending more than 2 or 3 will leave you pretty stretched, (as once reconnaissance is completed they’re unavailable for the rest of the turn), but in theory, you could send the whole Task Force, or do no reconnaissance at all.

For each successful recce. you turn the card over, and then draw a random chit which corresponds to a San Carlos event in the Event Booklet.

The Event itself will provide 3 options. First, if you have successfully conducted reconnaissance, and you don’t like the look of what you’ve uncovered, (i.e. that the landing beaches are mined), you can delay the landings for 24 hours. In that case, the Event is discarded, (you are assumed to have used the 24 hours to deal effectively with the threat). Second, if you have successfully conducted reconnaissance, and you feel you can’t afford to delay the landings, you can attempt to neutralise the threat. If your successful, the Event is again discarded, but if you’re not, you have to land with some form of penalty, (in the case of mines, each unit would have to roll for a step loss before it comes ashore). Finally, if you have chosen not to conduct reconnaissance on a particular card, (or you tried, but the vessel(s) were intercepted), then you have to continue with the landings, and face an even more severe penalty, (because in this instance you are wandering blind into whatever the Argentines have waiting for you). Again, using the mine example, your landing forces would have to roll for 2 step losses, instead of one.

Dice. Yes, if we don't go with white dice I'll amend the description in the rules. The important thing is that there are two different colours of dice for targeting during the Landings.

Re-ordering. We’re looking at this, but the problem is that a couple of phases occur at different times dependent on the stage of the game. Also, some of the rules have greater significance, and require prior rules knowledge to make much sense, than others. But the point is valid, and we’ll try and get the rules sequencing as close to the SOP as possible.

Components and Illustrated Examples. I’m confident that the issues relating to both of these will be tackled by having the components in front of you. The problem with increasing the size as you suggest is the cost implications of a much larger rule-book. I know all designers say this, but once you’ve got the game out in front of you it does become pretty self-explanatory.

Event Cards. The problem with putting a précis of each event on the card is that many of the events are quite detailed, and require unique game play on the part of the player. It may only be my personal taste, but I find it a bit frustrating when games insist on packing events into the text of a single card. It limits the range of what you can achieve. Also, as they only occur once each turn, the frustration is minimal, (from my admittedly biased experience).


Wulf – We can look at the pips, certainly.


Kristian – Yep, Ian’s right about that. And you’re also right about how the zones work, with different areas providing a greater chance of attack.



Dan
 
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Dan Hodges
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"Operation Sutton Reconnaissance


Dan,

When I reviewed the rules, the only area which was unclear was the Operation Sutton Reconnaissance.

As I understand it (and presumably this phase can only take place once?), when the OS SitRep card is turned over there will be up to five San Carlos event cards on the table. This will give from zero (is this possible?) to five attempts at reconnaissance. Place a warship on each card, roll 1d8 and if the result is an 8 the card remains face down (warship destroyed!), otherwise turn the card over (reconnaissance successful).

Now each card merely states "San Carlos Event" on it. So you randomly draw a San Carlos Event Marker for each (face down and face up?) card. Does this marker refer to an event in the Briefings Booklet? If so, does it have a different result based on whether the reconnaissance was successful or not?

Just trying to get this phase clear in my mind. Could you give an example (made up if you want) of possible outcomes and in delaying the landings what you are looking to do during this day's delay.

Thanks

Ian
"


Sorry fella's, Ian also asked the question above over on another Forum. This is what I'm responding to in my response regarding Operation Sutton Events.


Dan
 
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Arnauld DELLA SIEGA
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Rulebook seems a bit ... imposing.

Are the rules complex to read & learn for a non anglo-saxon ?
 
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Mark Mahaffey
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See the last paragraph of the introduction on page 3.
 
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Arnauld DELLA SIEGA
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Done !

I'm not discouraged any more ^^
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Jack Defevers
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batdog wrote:
The reference is to a D12 (note the capital 'D') which is explained in the Notes section in the introduction on page 3 as being the rolling of two six-sided dice and adding the two together


Man, maybe this is my OCD showing or something, but I cannot even begin to tell you how much stuff like this drives me crazy. "2d6" has been used as the standard abbreviation for "the rolling of two six-sided dice and adding the two together" since, approximately, the beginning of time. Conversely, "d12" or "D12" has been used as the abbreviation for a twelve-sided die for just about as long.

And note that the standard abbreviation has exactly the same number of characters as the term (apparently) invented for this game, so you aren't even gaining anything on the brevity front by using it.

You do not need to invent a new term to describe an incredibly basic mechanic when a perfectly clear and serviceable term exists and has been in use since gaming was invented.

Thank you.
 
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Mark Mahaffey
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Sorry you don't like, Jack. The game actually contains three "versions" of a 12 notation, not two... hence the addition:

1d12 [roll one 12-sided die, take the result, fitting inwith the rest of the notation]
2d6 [roll two 6-sided dice, obtaining two results ranging from 1-6]
D12 [roll two 6-sided dice, obtaining one result ranging from 2-12]

arrrh
 
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Dan Hodges
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Jack,


If it's any comfort, (which I doubt!), I had the same query with Mark when he first made that amend to the Rules.

But in fairness, the distinction is required, as will become apparent when you play the game.

Or not, if this formatting puts you off from going anywher near WTID again...






Dan


 
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Dan Hodges
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Ok fellas, final call for comments on the rules.

Mark is set to make the final amends this week, and then they're off to the printers with the rest of the components.

And Jack, we've had a couple more comments sharing your concern at the D12 issue, so Mark and I are going to see what we can do to simplify things.

 
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Barry Kendall
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Sorry, late to the party, fires and funerals and stuff.

Thumbs up to the LIGHTER blue background for black lettering in the rulebook. The more contrast, the better in every case for these aging eyes.

Re the D6-D12-2DWhatever mini-tempest, it never gave me pause at all. I supposed "2D6sum" might do for D6 plus D6, but on the other hand, the particular table being used for the application will show quite clearly what's to be done with those pips on the dice.

I wouldn't lose any sleep or re-adjust layouts or margins over it.

However, I appreciate Dan and Mark's transparency in final editing and their willingness to receive input from those who will be buying this baby.
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Mark Mahaffey
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Thanks, Barry. And thanks again to everyone who commented on the rulebook; we also got several good run-throughs from folks that were most helpful. We'll post the finished rulebook soon, probably sometime late next week...
 
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