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SPQR (Deluxe Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: C & C A vs. GboH rss

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Todd Pytel
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DorianGray wrote:
Is C&C for the average war-gamer (as opposed to the Euro-gamer)?

Yes. I think even the most die-hard, hex-and-counter grogs would appreciate C&C:A. They might feel it's a bit too light to be satisfying for sustained play, but I think most of them would have no problem at all pulling it out when they only had an hour or two to spare. I haven't played SPQR yet, though I have played a fair amount of Great Battles of Alex, which is quite similar. Though I find the GBoA rulebook very sloppy, it's still a really fun system with excellent scenarios and loads of historical detail. But it's definitely a huge step up in the time and energy commitment compared to C&C:A. Both are first-rate games, though.
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Ryan Powers
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The biggest problem I have with CC:A is just that I wish the expansions tried to spread the game a bit farther. Much like Battlelore, I think the expansions for both have mostly stayed too close to "home".

GBoH has Romans, Alexander, India, Japan, Mongols, Byzantium, etc. and their opponents of course.

Of course, the rules between different GBoH games are all different enough that a lot of relearning happens with each new game.
 
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Kent Reuber
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I've never managed to get any of the GBoH games to the table, but I'm willing to give them a try. I own the GBoH Samurai and would especially like to give this one some plays.

I highly recommend C&CA. It sets up and plays so darn fast (we've been known to play 4 scenarios in an evening) and is so entertaining that it's hard for me to pass up a game. If nothing else, because of its fast play, you can use it to investigate ancient battles and see if there are some scenarios you'd like to play in more detail with GBoH, Rome at War, or other similar grand tactical series.
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Colin Hunter
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Both are excellent, but completely different.

C&C:A is relatively simple and punches well above its weight in the depth category.

SPQR is more complex and probably deeper, but also longer.

It depends, if you have 4-5 hours spare, I'd play SPQR, if you only have 1 hour I'd go for C&CA.
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Dave King
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I play both series often, but they are totally different systems. C&C: Ancients games are quick and easy to learn and play, but have the right feel for the period; much more detailed than other Borg titles. GBoH games are true simulation war games with detailed rules and fairly complex mechanics; some folks call GBoH ASL for ancients, although it doesn't go quite that far. SPQR and others in the series are definitely not for the casual gamer.

BTW, I don't consider C&C to be in the Euro class. The games are much deeper than Euros, highly competitive, emphasize defeating an enemy and laying waste to the countryside rather than raising something cuddly, and there's always an actual winner who can proudly chalk up another victim. Euros they ain't.
 
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John H
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Well, for a slightly different take,

I personally found that Command & Color Ancients does not flow or execute at all like an ancients battle. Among other things, no facing makes historical flanking maneuvers largely moot. The goals and features of the system have led to very gamey tactics in about every game I've seen. Frankly, it wasn't that much fun for me and ahistorical to boot. (and I actually like Memoir '44(!), which is at least fun and gives a feeling of the flow of a WW2 skirmish)

I know many on this site adore C&C:A, but I didn't find it deep or satisfying or any of the other wondrous adjectives used in this thread and others. I'm glad that others enjoy it, but there do exist people who feel it is not much of a game.

You'll get a much, much better feeling of commanding an ancient army with a GBoH type system, at the cost of some time and complexity. I use the Simple GBoH system for games like SPQR, which streamlines things nicely.

Another system to look at is the Ancients Deluxe system, now put out by Victory Point games. S&T has had some good ancients games out over the years as well.

Good luck in finding a good fit for your ancients wargaming preferences.
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Nadav Abramovitz
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Hi there,

I have C&C:A and been wondering whether I should purchase SPQR deluxe.

On one hand I have enough 2nd Punic War games (C&C:A and I've pre-ordered Battleground Historical Warfare), on ther other, it would sound as if SPQR is more historically accurate and contains some scenarios other than Rome vs. Carthage (I've checked it's VASSAL module and it seems to have more armies, but are they all included in the basic box?),

Also, if SPQR takes a lot more time and is more complex than C&C:A that means I'll get to play it less, less chance to bring this to the table with friends. Although to be frank, C&C:A isn't such a fast game either. While the game itself plays quickly, the setup is a bit of time consuming (such as with Battlelore), especially if you don't have everything carefully arranged in plano boxes, which aren't sold where I live.

Alas, BGG is lacking in reviews of SPQR deluxe (it'd be nice if someone wrote such a thing, describing in detail, though not too much, the system, gameplay, scenarios and such), so I am posting this question here: Should I purchase SPQR deluxe?

Thanks
 
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