Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Giants» Forums » Rules

Subject: Using a Rongo half-tablet to peek at a base rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Matt Smith
United States
Troy
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The rules are a little vague as to when a Rongo half-tablet can be spent to look at a base under a moai. The player screens show this action as being in phase 4 (transportation). This leads me to have the following questions:
1. Can you spend a half-tablet in any phase other than phase 4, to look at a base under a moai?
2. According to the rulebook, this rule is intended to give players a way to know the ownership of a moai before placing a headdress on that moai. If a player doesn't look at the base, but makes a mistake and places a headdress on another player's moai, what happens? Should the player owning the moai point out the mistake, or should he keep quiet, knowing he will get the points for that headdress at the end of the game?

To me, it seems the intent of this rule is to allow for the possibility of putting a headdress on someone else's moai. If you make that mistake, too bad, you don't get the points for the headdress. This puts a little more importance on Rongo tablets, which had been reduced by the scoring change in the FAQ. But I'm interested in knowing if the designer intended for the possibility of players putting headdresses on moais they don't own, and that is why this "peeking" rule was devised.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
unkle
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Putting a headress on someone else Moai is definitely "allowed". Of course you'll never want to be the one doing it :-)

I think you can peek just before putting the headress (after worker placement is completed, really). I tend to think this only covers cases in which there are 2-3 Moais close to each other, and you can't figure which one is which.

Never happened in any of my games, though. People usually remember where their Moais are.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Smith
United States
Troy
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks, unkle. That's what I suspected.

I could see a benefit of peeking at a base during phase 3 (worker placement). For example, you want to carve and deliver a headdress this turn, but you can't quite remember which of three adjacent moai is yours. You would want to peek at the base(s) before placing your workers, to ensure you have a completed path of workers to the correct moai. If you wait until phase 4 (transportation) to peek at the base, you may be forced to abandon a headdress in a hex, and may not have saved a tribe marker to claim it.

If a player wants to spend a half-tablet during phase 3 to peek at a base, I don't see the harm. He's making it harder to power up the chief, so it's still a difficult choice.

We had this situation come up this past weekend. All four players delivered their first statues to the far side of the island, and most were size one. One new player wasn't exactly sure which statues were his.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
unkle
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well there is always the possibilty of a house rule on that.
I agree that doing it in phase 3 is really what you want but in that case
* cost is not really high
* it should NOT be done at the expense of another action
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Smith
United States
Troy
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
unkle wrote:
Well there is always the possibilty of a house rule on that.
I agree that doing it in phase 3 is really what you want but in that case
* cost is not really high
* it should NOT be done at the expense of another action

I agree, it should not be done as it's own action in phase 3, but in addition to performing another phase 3 action. Otherwise, players could spend their half-tablets as delay actions, and not really for the peeking ability.

I do think the cost of spending a half-tablet to peek at a base is rather high, no matter when you do it. So far in my games, players have retained very few half-tablets. The tablets get spent quickly on Chief actions. Also, players have been using their tribe markers more for bidding and marking statues than producing half-tablets. For me, it would be a tough decision to spend a half-tablet to peek.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
unkle
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd really like to play with your group (but it is not going to happen soon).

In my games, it is quite common to see people getting in the 6-8 range of half-tablet. I do not have a strong opinion on the price that should be paid for peeking, it is an action I have never taken myself (or saw in the game).

The economy of the half-tablets is funny in fact. You want to have ~2 half-tablets per turn (especially at the beginning) since sorcerer actions are critical in the early game. It means I usually end up with 5 tribal markers very quickly: 2-3 for bidding, 2 for tablets, 1 for marking. Any time I do not bid AT ALL (which happens) or do not need to mark, I grab at least another tablet. So ending with 5-6 is not that uncommon (you cannot spend them in any other way).

Last game I played, though, I got a strong backfire from not bidding, since someone, betting his chief, scupted 2 size-one Moais in one turn, delivered them with headress next turn. Eng game. Boom. I got badly beaten this game (We were 2 not bidding at all (tribes/men) for transportation purpose). I can see myself now always or nearly always bidding one guy at least, as soon as #Moais = #Players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
someone, betting his chief, scupted 2 size-one Moais in one turn,

It is not allowed to use the chief to sculpt more than one moai.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
unkle
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
House rule. I think it brings more flavor to the bidding session. We played both and nobody was ever using their chief for bids, due to the power of chief+2tablets.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
unkle wrote:
House rule. I think it brings more flavor to the bidding session.

And breaks the fine balance of the game. By your rule, it's possible to get even three moais with the chief, and it would be too easy to transport them across a long distance, because you can use all your workers. If you have to use three workers to sculpt those same three moais (as per the written rules), the chief can still occupy only one hex and is not so useful in their transportation. But it is your game, feel free to spoil it as you like.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
unkle
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for allowing me to play a worse game, I do appreciate

How many time in a game do you sculpt multiple Moais ? I would be curious. Before we decided to let the chef sculpt multiple Moais, it NEVER happened. This is why we changed that. It makes bidding harder. I like it a lot. I may switch back if I see that as too powerful, right now it looks like it is not (too powerful or balance-breaking).

But it is your game, feel free to not spoil it as you like.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Smith
United States
Troy
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In my last game, I actually used the Chief to carve a size-2 moai, because I needed my 3 other workers plus wood to deliver the moai that turn. If I had bid with 2 workers, I wouldn't have had enough other figures to deliver the moai that turn, unless I used my sorcerer in the village. I didn't want to do that, as it was getting late in the game and I wanted to sculpt a headdress too (I suspected others would be placing workers that would allow me to move my headdress). So I used the Chief to carve the moai, my 3 workers plus 3 wood to deliver the moai, and my sorcerer to make a headdress, which I delivered using other players' figures (I still netted positive points). I don't think I could have had as good a scoring turn if I hadn't sculpted with my Chief.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is it seems the restriction on the Chief only carving one statue per turn does provide a nice balancing effect. There are times later in the game when you really need to place more figures than you need the Chief+Rongo powers, or his 1-hex transportation ability. I have seen the Chief used as a sculptor in each of my games so far, so maybe your experience is more "group think" than anything else. I will keep my eye out for Chief sculptors in future games, to see if it is as rare a thing as you've experienced.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
unkle
France
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Giants is a strongly interactive game, where group-think, or at least smart guess of what the others are doing, is critical to win.

I am listening to you, yet I think I'd rather have the ability to use chief+2 tablets to get a new worker, unless it is the last turn. I'll see if it looks to powerful to let the chief sculpt 2 Moais. I think it is not, mostly because the number of dice rolls that have exactly #moais=#players is not that high. Of course it could be triggered in other cases, though I'd doubt that. I usually want a Moai, unless I am last on the ties (tablets/turn) and/or cannot bid as many tokens as I'd like. Again might really be group-think, I agree.

Good to see people enjoying the game too, by the way ! I really consider it one of my top games of 2008. And strongly expect to play it more...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.