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Subject: That's it man, game over man, game over! rss

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I just watched Aliens. 1986. Long time no see, and what a lot I'd forgotten. Quite a long, innocent build-up, clue in all the people that hadn't seen the original, lots of military drumming and gung-ho stuff. That little girl screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaming her head off every few seconds.

But all really really scarey. There's lots of them. You don't see them clearly until a long way through the film. And then they just don't stop. It's a long picture, 2.5 hours.

Spoiler.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'd completely forgotten that Burke, the company guy, released the two specimen bugs to impregnate Ripley and Newt as they slept under the bed in the med lab. What a creep!


1986. A lot looked like 1986 too. The costumes, the haircuts. The politics, sexual and racial.

I was very struck at how the first film was a horror pic, and the second was essentially a war movie. A scarey war movie, but it seemed like they were fighting and I've removed the word because I learn now that it is an explicit racial slur used by Americans for Asians. But it reminded me now of the tunnels used by the Viet Cong, with the enemy creeping up, appearing out of darkness, overwhelming the tooled up Marines and forcing a retreat.

I'm struck too that this film came out one year after Schwarzeneggar's Commando, and likewise has Ripley loading up her weapons, strapping on the gear. Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology. I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer. Probably because we're crap at it. We can invent stuff, but not make it.

1986. Game over man, game over.
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I'm am just watching an interview with the director Cameron made at the time, and they just said he's very consciously making a Vietnam war movie but in outer space.
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Ripley was also one of the first strong ass kicking female leads in a movie. That was a big deal at the time with women wearing shoulderpads in the workplace and fighting for the top jobs that men had sole privilege for most of history.

Aliens 3 and 4 are both crap, so I urge you to not watch them. Just imagine the series ends at Aliens.
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Alien 3 was the first movie my SO and I saw together. He spent most of it hiding behind me. Yes, that was more than likely an excuse to cop the odd feel, but he's really not good with scenes that make you jump, and the Alien movies are full of those.

I agree, the first two movies were the best, it was all downhill from there.
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I'd forgotten about the shoulder-pads, but you are correct. The Marines also have female characters as Vasquez and the pilot. A fairly integrated crew. And the child Newt was a girl, who had survived on her own (a point made explicitly when one of the Marines is cracking up).

EDIT: I don't think Alien 3 was that bad, but it did show Hollywood how you could breathe new life into a supposedly dead genre. Now any franchise can be extended and survive.

EDIT 2: Apparently, the special edition I watched now included a bunch of scenes not in the original. Which explains why I don't remember them.
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So many great quotes from that movie....

"We're in the pipe, 5 by 5."
"Game over man"
"Stay frosty"
"Why don't you put her in charge?"
"Looks like a GD town meeting"
"Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen. Found 'em"
"Affirmative"
"You're just grinding metal"
"Somebody wake up Hicks"
"They can bill me"


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Matthew Kloth
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Aliens 3 really pissed me off.

It's production was a nightmare, with the script being written over and over again. There was an early trailer that said something to the effect of "Aliens... on Earth!". That movie never got made. Instead the studio butchered the movie. They spent a chunk of the budget before the movie started shooting on props and stages that they later dismantled and threw away. This meant they had to cut costs on actors and special effect. You can definitely tell in the finished product.

Even with all that happening the movie could have been okay. David Fincher was new but has proven now that he can direct good movies (Seven, Fight Club). But, the studio did a hack job on the movie he shot. The special edition that was released 11 years after the movie in the Quadrility box set has a movie that is much closer to what Fincher was shooting. 3/4 of the film in the special edition is different than the original release. The special edition is rough around the edges (hell, the original cut is rough), but it's a much better movie than the original cut.

Spoiler for the thing that pissed me off the most:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Newt and Hicks are dead. WTF! They where one happy family and they die off screen. Michael Biehn's salary couldn't have been that much. That is why in my brain there are no 3rd or 4th Aliens movies. Ripley, Hicks, and Newt are happily living out the rest of their wonderful lives.
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EYE of NiGHT wrote:

Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology. I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer. Probably because we're crap at it. We can invent stuff, but not make it.


Not to get this moved to RSP, but as an American speaking from the inside, I see pretty much the same thing. Remember that Karl von Clausewitz said "War is a continuation of policy by other means. It is not merely a political act but a real political instrument." We seem to have taken this to heart.

And Americans love technology. We look for an elegant technological solution when brute force is simpler and faster. Oh, well. At least we end up with cool gadgets out of the effort.


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I saw Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection in movie theaters.

I still haven't fully recovered.

For my money, almost nobody does strong female characters like James Cameron. Ripley? Sarah Conner? Even Lindsay Brigman in The Abyss.

I am looking forward to Avatar . . .
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I have a question about Aliens--at one point one of the marines was feeling all sick and weird, and they asked him if he was all right, and they eventually put him to sleep with everyone else, right? Was that because he was supposed to unleash an alien on earth but it never happened?

I was watching a taped version of a tv showing, so I could have missed something that got cut out. Did Burke die a nasty death, or did they show an alien dragging him off? Paul Reiser!!! Did they show Burke unleashing the baby Aliens or was it implied?
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EYE of NiGHT wrote:
I'm struck too that this film came out one year after Schwarzeneggar's Commando, and likewise has Ripley loading up her weapons, strapping on the gear. Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology. I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer. Probably because we're crap at it. We can invent stuff, but not make it.


It appears to me that outsiders summarily judging other countries by the movies they make is inherently unbelievable.
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tada wrote:
EYE of NiGHT wrote:
I'm struck too that this film came out one year after Schwarzeneggar's Commando, and likewise has Ripley loading up her weapons, strapping on the gear. Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology. I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer. Probably because we're crap at it. We can invent stuff, but not make it.


It appears to me that outsiders summarily judging other countries by the movies they make is inherently unbelievable.


Please clarify.

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country?

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country by the cultural artifacts it produces?

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country by the cultural artifacts it produces, or just by its movies?

Are you really disbelieving that outsiders have to use whatever material produced by a culture to summarily judge that culture? Because I suspect you were trying to comment on the assertion itself, but failed. If I am wrong, and you genuinely feel that outsiders could not possibly use movies as a way of judging a culture dominated by movie production as a cultural expression, then well then I am wrong.

If this does go to RSP, then I'm not following it. I'm too scared to go in there.
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craniac wrote:
I have a question about Aliens--at one point one of the marines was feeling all sick and weird, and they asked him if he was all right, and they eventually put him to sleep with everyone else, right? Was that because he was supposed to unleash an alien on earth but it never happened?


I don't know what you're referring to. I don't recall any of the Marines feeling sick and being questioned, sorry. At the end, Hudson (Biehn) had been splashed by acid and in the extra scene you see him shooting up morphine, and is conked out for the remainder of the film.

Quote:
I was watching a taped version of a tv showing, so I could have missed something that got cut out. Did Burke die a nasty death, or did they show an alien dragging him off? Paul Reiser!!! Did they show Burke unleashing the baby Aliens or was it implied?


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The unleashing was all implied. But when Ripley is waving at the security camera to get attention, Burke switches the monitor off whilst the other Marines are distracted. So clearly he did do it.

Burke got ripped to pieces. The remaining Marines, Ripley, Newt and Burke had secured themselves in the Ops room and sealed the door. The Aliens kept getting closer, until they realsied they must be inside the room. They looked up into the ceiling space and there they were. All hell kicks off, and Ripley gets Newt to retreat to the Med Lab, down a passage. But Burke beat them to it and closes and bolts the door on them. He's seen alone, sneaking away. He opens a door, AND THERE'S A HUGE ALIEN THERE, GRINNING!! SCHTUNK! He gets his! Moral codes are relieved. The villain dies, the brave heroes live, ok most of them die, but heroically.
 
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I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Alien and Aliens rock! Hard. I've never seen any of the others.

The first movie is the best. Aliens has some fantastic scenes (Ripley and Newt vs. the Facehugger!) but the pure horror of the first worked better for me than the horror/war/action hybrid that was the second. Aliens also has some silly parts, like the oversized weapons, Ripley going all Rambolina, the loader/walker fight vs. the Queen, and above all Mad About You-Paul Reiser.
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Rambolina!

Quote:
At the end, Hudson (Biehn) had been splashed by acid and in the extra scene you see him shooting up morphine, and is conked out for the remainder of the film.


Ah, ok thanks. I assumed he had been impregnated. They should show Alien/Aliens to college girls to encourage birth control.
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EYE of NiGHT wrote:
I just watched Aliens. 1986. Long time no see, and what a lot I'd forgotten. Quite a long, innocent build-up, clue in all the people that hadn't seen the original, lots of military drumming and gung-ho stuff. That little girl screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaming her head off every few seconds.

But all really really scarey. There's lots of them. You don't see them clearly until a long way through the film. And then they just don't stop. It's a long picture, 2.5 hours.

Spoiler.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'd completely forgotten that Burke, the company guy, released the two specimen bugs to impregnate Ripley and Newt as they slept under the bed in the med lab. What a creep!


1986. A lot looked like 1986 too. The costumes, the haircuts. The politics, sexual and racial.

I was very struck at how the first film was a horror pic, and the second was essentially a war movie. A scarey war movie, but it seemed like they were fighting and I've removed the word because I learn now that it is an explicit racial slur used by Americans for Asians. But it reminded me now of the tunnels used by the Viet Cong, with the enemy creeping up, appearing out of darkness, overwhelming the tooled up Marines and forcing a retreat.

I'm struck too that this film came out one year after Schwarzeneggar's Commando, and likewise has Ripley loading up her weapons, strapping on the gear. Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology. I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer. Probably because we're crap at it. We can invent stuff, but not make it.

1986. Game over man, game over.


If you get a chance check out the 1958 B-horror film "It! The Terror From Beyond Space!" It is one of my favorite junk films and it looks like the guy who made "Alien" must have seen it, or heard about it.
A fun movie!



from the wiki....

The film opens with a classic 1950s version of a spaceship (three tail fins, long, pointed body) perched on the cratered surface of an alien world. A voice-over tells us that the year is 1973 (voice at the beginning of the film says that it's six months after the initial crash, which was listed as January, 1973) and this is the planet Mars. It transpires that this vessel has been sent to rescue the crew of a previous exploration mission. They have found only one survivor, Col. Edward Carruthers, and suspect him of having murdered the others to save rations for himself. Carruthers pleads his innocence, blaming the deaths of his colleagues on an unknown creature they encountered on the planet.

The commander is unsympathetic and orders the ship to return to Earth. However, before blasting off, a junior crew-member unwisely leaves a door to the spaceship open for a time...

After lift-off, the crew settle down for the long trip back to Earth. It is not long before things start to go amiss: In (now) typical horror-movie fashion, unimportant crew-members wander off to isolated parts of the ship and are dispatched by It. Usually, we see only a character's reaction shot and, perhaps, a looming shadow - the creature, at this point, is not clearly seen.

As the trip progresses, the crew are at first skeptical that something is aboard, but soon have to accept the fact as the body-count mounts. At this point they decide to tool-up - the ship is equipped with an impressive amount of weaponry, including handguns, machine-guns, hand-grenades and even a bazooka.

The intruder is largely immune to all this hardware however, and at one point the crew manage to trap It in the "reactor room" (the ship is nuclear-powered) and expose it to the reactor by raising a shutter (apparently the nuclear pile is like the furnace in a steam-ship).

As the crew dwindle, they retreat up the ship until finally they are in control only of the top-most chamber. In a final stand-off, in which all manner of anti-armour weapons are unleashed in a confined space to no great effect, they hit on the excellent idea of blowing the hatch. The explosive decompression does the rest and the creature is no more.
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EYE of NiGHT wrote:
tada wrote:
EYE of NiGHT wrote:
I'm struck too that this film came out one year after Schwarzeneggar's Commando, and likewise has Ripley loading up her weapons, strapping on the gear. Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology. I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer. Probably because we're crap at it. We can invent stuff, but not make it.


It appears to me that outsiders summarily judging other countries by the movies they make is inherently unbelievable.


Please clarify.

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country?

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country by the cultural artifacts it produces?

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country by the cultural artifacts it produces, or just by its movies?

Are you really disbelieving that outsiders have to use whatever material produced by a culture to summarily judge that culture? Because I suspect you were trying to comment on the assertion itself, but failed. If I am wrong, and you genuinely feel that outsiders could not possibly use movies as a way of judging a culture dominated by movie production as a cultural expression, then well then I am wrong.


Clearly people do judge by shortsighted means all the time, but they shouldn't. Duh!

You're the one who went "RSP" in Chit Chat by making the jab against the US based on two movies, especially compared with the massive amount of American movies available that supposedly also represents our culture: ones that don't support your claim. If you want to judge a whole nation then apply a little more evidence than the selective criteria you have discussed. Maybe, just maybe, people should not be so flippant about throwing out such comments with such a meager setup. Also, maybe, just maybe, people should not judge a whole nation based on its "Hollywood" anyway. I can't wait until your opinions on India show up because of a couple of films you saw. (I guess they dance & sing a lot in streets there.)

Please find a better and a more varied source for bashing anything that has hundreds a millions of people in it. Generalizations generally suck.

EYE of NiGHT wrote:
If this does go to RSP, then I'm not following it. I'm too scared to go in there.


You're better at movies than politics anyway. Stay where it is safe for you.
 
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Quote:
Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology.


I am an American, and I was not offended or shocked by either of these statements, nor was I offended by them. Every country with an army seems to conflate politics and war at some point, even dying empires like Britain. I'd argue that Japan does an even more frenetic job of applying technology to social problems than the U.S., which is why they will soon have senior citizens in powered armor, fighting crime.
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EYE of NiGHT wrote:
I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer.

Electronic surveillance and collection of personal data are "pervasive" in British society and threaten to undermine democracy, peers have warned.

British Government Wants Private Firm To Monitor Super Database Of Every Person In Britain

House of Lords Constitution Committee - Second Report -
Surveillance: Citizens and the State


Surveillance cameras. DNA database of non-criminals. National ID card with fingerprints. A database of every phone call and e-mail by citizens of Britain. And more yet to come!

Forgive me if I treat your assertion with a modicum of disrespect.

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RockLobster wrote:
EYE of NiGHT wrote:
I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer.

Electronic surveillance and collection of personal data are "pervasive" in British society and threaten to undermine democracy, peers have warned.

British Government Wants Private Firm To Monitor Super Database Of Every Person In Britain

House of Lords Constitution Committee - Second Report -
Surveillance: Citizens and the State


Surveillance cameras. DNA database of non-criminals. National ID card with fingerprints. A database of every phone call and e-mail by citizens of Britain. And more yet to come!

Forgive me if I treat your assertion with a modicum of disrespect.



That's what our aristocratic government is imposing upon us, against our wishes, having promised peviously that they wouldn't. As a people, we know it's a load of bollocks doomed to failure. But thanks for pointing that out.
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tada wrote:
EYE of NiGHT wrote:
tada wrote:
EYE of NiGHT wrote:
I'm struck too that this film came out one year after Schwarzeneggar's Commando, and likewise has Ripley loading up her weapons, strapping on the gear. Still today, American culture to me as an outsider appears to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology. I don't claim the UK doesn't use war, evidently we do, but we don't have this belief that more technology is the answer. Probably because we're crap at it. We can invent stuff, but not make it.


It appears to me that outsiders summarily judging other countries by the movies they make is inherently unbelievable.


Please clarify.

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country?

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country by the cultural artifacts it produces?

You don't believe that outsiders judge a country by the cultural artifacts it produces, or just by its movies?

Are you really disbelieving that outsiders have to use whatever material produced by a culture to summarily judge that culture? Because I suspect you were trying to comment on the assertion itself, but failed. If I am wrong, and you genuinely feel that outsiders could not possibly use movies as a way of judging a culture dominated by movie production as a cultural expression, then well then I am wrong.


Clearly people do judge by shortsighted means all the time, but they shouldn't. Duh!


Duh! And doing other obviously bad things is bad too. Duh!

Why is an outsider using the main medium of cultural expression of a foreign society as a guide to that society's beliefs short-sighted? What else is an outsider suppose to draw from if they remain outside?

Quote:
You're the one who went "RSP" in Chit Chat by making the jab


Jab? That's like a punch, isn't it? An attack? Why do think that's an attack? My comment wasn't an attack. I didn't say either of those beliefs was morally right or wrong. I made no moral judgement at all.

If you disagree with the opinion of outsider, why consider it an attack? If you think that the US does not "appear(s) to have inherent belief in two things, the exercise of war as a politic mechanism and the relief of problems by technology." then explain why not, as an outsider. But please, don't go all whiney and sarcastic on me.

Quote:
against the US based on two movies,


Two movies? What, the US has only made two films ever? Or I have only seen two? Or I am making my comment purely on only ever seeing two US films and nothing else ever? I am slightly better informed than that.

Quote:
especially compared with the massive amount of American movies available that supposedly also represents our culture: ones that don't support your claim.


I wasn't basing my opinion upon these two films. I am well aware of a mass of counter-culture in US society, mostly arising in Independent production. But that's a point in my favour. They are counter to the prevailing culture. The whole point of the Hippie movment as such was that it wasn't the norm. Easy Rider and its massive commercial success was a huge shock to Hollywood. But it didn't change the mainstream culture.

Quote:
If you want to judge a whole nation then apply a little more evidence than the selective criteria you have discussed.


Well I could do, but now I can't be arsed. I was making some comments about a specific film in a specifc period. I could try backing it up with more, but I just can't be bothered.

Quote:
Maybe, just maybe, people should not be so flippant about throwing out such comments with such a meager setup.


Maybe, just maybe, people should not be so damn reactionary when somebody says something they disagree with.

Quote:
Also, maybe, just maybe, people should not judge a whole nation based on its "Hollywood" anyway.


Maybe, but Hollywood, which produces almost all of US TV and Cinema production (and almost all music production outside of Country music (which is not a significant export)), looks like a pretty good litmus to me. Can you name the other cultural media which demonstrate a greater strength of American sensibilities? The internet? Pop music?

Quote:
I can't wait until your opinions on India show up because of a couple of films you saw. (I guess they dance & sing a lot in streets there.)


Yeah, and Britain is in B&W and cor blimey guv'nor we all speak da Cockerney an no mistake. Well Bollywood does make a lot piss-poor musicals and yes, I have watched a few but no I couldn't tell you their names. Bollywood does make other films too, a lot of rip-offs as well. But I'm guessing India is a pretty hot sort of place, and men and women don't kiss much in public. Am I right? Am I right?

Quote:
Please find a better and a more varied source for bashing


Bashing? Who bashed? Not me, I merely remarked.

Quote:
anything that has hundreds a millions of people in it.


Quantity? Volume is never an argument. If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.

Well the USofA is a broad and varied union of states, but I don't see a whole lot of competition for the cultural material produced by Hollywood. If each state had it's own Hollywood, you'd have a point. Look at the broadcast news across the US. Can you really tell one State from another by way the local news network behaves? Which US state has a TV/Film production base that even rivals Hollywood? New York? I don't think so.

Quote:
Generalizations generally suck.


No. Bad generalisations suck. Good ones are valid. Stereo means solid, not wrong or immoral. A valid stereotype is a valid tool for discussion. Do all Brits have bad teeth? Yup, pretty much.

EYE of NiGHT wrote:
If this does go to RSP, then I'm not following it. I'm too scared to go in there.


Quote:
You're better at movies than politics anyway. Stay where it is safe for you.


Safe? ooooh thank you Daddy for the warning. I'll stay out here in the sunshine with the butterflies and daisies. tra la la
 
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Man! You ask for clarification then you get so damn reactionary. I'm going to watch a Brit movie or two to see if this is a typical British cultural mindset.

Thanks for your response. Good show.
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