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Subject: Any good Euro Style Area Control Game rss

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Oscar Hatten
Australia
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hey guys,
I am looking for a Euro syle area control game. After playing risk 2210 and diplomacy I want something which is more balanced and is there isn't the problem of a player getting too far ahead. I have looked at a couple of things such as El Grande and Shogun, both are thought of highly here. Just curious as to which ones you think would be best?
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Andrew H
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El Grande. Definitely the best place to start.
San Marco. Excellent game. Every decision is tense.

Web of Power remade as China is pretty good and has two layers of area control plus chain building.
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Andreas Quiter
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I sugest Vinci / Small World.
I think of it as enough euro, considering the elements involved. And it is certainly area controll.
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Richard Irving
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To the original poster: Risk and Diplomacy are NOT area control games. Risk & Diplomacy are wargames played on a area map (as opposed to hex based or point to point map). In both, only one player can control any region AND combat is initiated when units move into regions occupied by other players.

Area control games are those that award control of (or scores VP's for) a region to the player(s) who have the most pieces there. Multiple players can be in any area in an area control game--the key is to have the most when scoring occurs.

Just making sure what you are asking for.

Critical Mass wrote:
San Marco. Excellent game. Every decision is tense.


Yes, every decision in San Marco is tense--the problem is the winner in NOT the player who makes the best of these tense decisions, but the player who benefits the most from other players' bad choices on the tense decisions. That's a serious problem.
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Richard Irving
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Fone Bone wrote:
I sugest Vinci / Small World.
I think of it as enough euro, considering the elements involved. And it is certainly area controll.


Actually they aren't area control games. But they be more of what the original poster was looking for.
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Nick Fisk
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How many players normally in your group?

If the answer is ....

2: Small World

3: San Marco

4/5: El Grande




N.
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Bruce Murphy
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I'm not so sure about Small World with 2. Sun Tzu with 2 is pretty nifty, though.

B>
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Nathan Trimmer
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My suggestion would be El Capitán. It has absolutely beautiful artwork by Mike Doyle, scales well, and even comes with a few expansion boards and rules.

-Nate
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Mitch Willis
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You might want to check out Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery and Midgard; while both of these utilize other mechanics as well, area control is a major factor in both...
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John Rogers
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If playing with two I suggest 1960: the making of the president. It is essentially an area control game but with more detailed card management.

I'd also suggest Shogun, my wife really likes that one because you can build things and I dig it because you can attack people.

If you don't mind spending some cash, Liberte is a wonderful area control game about the French Revolution (designed by Martin Wallace no less). It's OOP but scales great and the theme isn't pasted on like many other euros.

People have already mentioned El Grande and it is a good place to start. Very easy to teach and learn and the mechanics flow together quite naturally.

Have fun picking out a game. So many great ones to choose from.
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Bill Eldard
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rri1 wrote:
Area control games are those that award control of (or scores VP's for) a region to the player(s) who have the most pieces there. Multiple players can be in any area in an area control game--the key is to have the most when scoring occurs.


Is that the official BGG definition of area control?

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Pete Lane
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El Grande is the classic, and one of my all time favorite games.
I don't think Small World would satisfy you based on the games you've already mentioned. It has some clever bits to it, but for the most part there is no real excitement to the area conquering, which would make your feel a little let down I think. But that's just me.

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Eric Jome
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Eldard wrote:
Is that the official BGG definition of area control?


http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2080

The definition given is a bit narrow, but more or less right. I think you could make a very strong case for considering Diplomacy as sort of area control - while the central trait of area control is co-habitation and that can never happen in Diplomacy, you take control of areas using a majority control of neighboring areas... so I guess it is "next to area" area control.

The distinction here is probably academic. A person who considers Risk a game where you control areas is going to be happy with Small World or Axis & Allies as a game where you control areas.

But strictly speaking, area control means the player with the most control over a given area is given the most points.
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C A
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Eldard wrote:

Is that the official BGG definition of area control?


I don't know, but always view it like this;

Area Control = Only one player can be in an area at a time. They control that area until its taken from them. Risk is an area control game.

Area Majority = Multiple players can be in an area together. The player with the most pieces in that area gets it. El Grande is an area majority game.

Although area majority could be considered a sub-genre of area control, the two types do play differently.
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Ray
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Eldard wrote:
rri1 wrote:
Area control games are those that award control of (or scores VP's for) a region to the player(s) who have the most pieces there. Multiple players can be in any area in an area control game--the key is to have the most when scoring occurs.

Is that the official BGG definition of area control?

hypothetically an area control game could be one where whoever has the least pieces controls an area. but yes the idea is that some competition is occurring within the area to see who controls it with multiple factions having a presence in that area.
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Mike
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I would go with any of these

El Grande

Small World

Mission: Red Planet

Evo

Cave Troll

Primordial Soup
 
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Matt Musselman
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rri1 wrote:
To the original poster: Risk and Diplomacy are NOT area control games. Risk & Diplomacy are wargames played on a area map (as opposed to hex based or point to point map). In both, only one player can control any region AND combat is initiated when units move into regions occupied by other players.


I'm not sure if they are or not, but during an initial play of Small World, the only thing I kept thinking was, "Huh. This is like a very Euro-y low-luck version of Risk. Where each player's army has special powers. Sort of cool."

So given the original context, I think it would be a pretty safe game to look into.

San Marco might work too (to second other people's recommendations) but it's not quite as confrontational, and a little drier.
 
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Justin Moore
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I would also suggest König von Siam
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Eric Jome
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lifepawn wrote:
Area Control vs. Area Majority


If you look at the mechanics as defined on this site, there is no such thing as "area majority"... would that mean I control the majority of areas in the game or I have the majority stake in a single area?

Can I be said to control the area if other people are in the area? Or do I only have partial control? And don't I control the area when I am the only one in control of it? El Grande certainly has opportunities for me to be the only one in control of an area... does that make it not an area control game? And Diplomacy expressly forbids more than one piece per area, but I gain control of areas by using majority control of the region... am I controlling areas there or not?

Jargon is a funny thing. You'd like it to be intuitive, to mean what it appears to say. But in practice, it has a special meaning and you just have to learn it. And the term "area control" is board gaming geek jargon for the central game mechanic of a game like El Grande - multiple players with pieces in the same area deciding who has control by majorities and being awarded points for them. You'd sure think to read the words "area control" that a game where you take control of areas like Risk would count, but it doesn't... because the jargon says so, I guess.

For a long time, I've wished we had a more rigorous and complete set of terms for talking about games, but every time I try to post suggestions about it I get flamed.
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Jim "git yer stinkin' themes offa my mechanic" Puccio
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ozgarr wrote:
I am looking for a Euro syle area control game.

Are you looking for something like Terra Nova, perhaps?
 
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Justin Moore
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I think the part of Area Control games being missed in this discussion is the surrounding mechanic. Like Through the Desert or Domaine where you are trying to control large areas even though nothing you have is in them.

I do consider El Grande, King of Siam, and San Marco Area Majority games. Smarter people than me on this site can call them Area Control all they want, but I will never call them that in my universe.
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Matt Musselman
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cosine wrote:
For a long time, I've wished we had a more rigorous and complete set of terms for talking about games, but every time I try to post suggestions about it I get flamed.


You're not the only one.

I've made several suggestions for missing mechanics. One of which, Worker Placement, was finally added to the site recently, but usually all that happens is:

First, I get flamed for suggesting a mechanic which supposedly already exists. (e.g. this discussion about whether Area Control and Area Majority are the same thing)

Then I get flamed for suggesting something that some people consider a theme rather than a mechanic.

Then I get flamed for having so little life that I have to worry about the list and definition of the official mechanics on BGG.

Then I get flamed because, via some kind of ridiculous slippery slope argument, "every game in the database" can be said to sort of use that mechanic. (e.g. in the worker placement discussion, someone said, "Any game where you have a hand of cards to choose from, you could be said to be placing a worker on the card you chose to play, and no one else can use that card. So every game with cards is Worker Placement as well?!??")

Lastly, I get flamed because all the flames I received constitute a flamewar, which I allegedly started for having posted the question in the first place.

Long story short, I feel your pain.... soblue
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C A
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cosine wrote:
lifepawn wrote:
Area Control vs. Area Majority


If you look at the mechanics as defined on this site, there is no such thing as "area majority"...


Well if BGG doesn't define it then I guess it must not exist.

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Bill Eldard
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wtrollkin2000 wrote:
Eldard wrote:
rri1 wrote:
Area control games are those that award control of (or scores VP's for) a region to the player(s) who have the most pieces there. Multiple players can be in any area in an area control game--the key is to have the most when scoring occurs.

Is that the official BGG definition of area control?

hypothetically an area control game could be one where whoever has the least pieces controls an area. but yes the idea is that some competition is occurring within the area to see who controls it with multiple factions having a presence in that area.


The reason I asked is that BGG seems to be less definitive if we're to judge by some of the games listing the area control mechanic. While Risk and Diplomacy don't carry the label (consistent with your interpretion), the following games do carry the designation on their BGG pages:

Small World (but oddly enough, not Vinci)

Princes of the Renaissance (I don't see area control in this one at all.)

Fjords (Isn't this just a tile-laying game?)

Axis & Allies: Europe (Much closer to Risk than to Web of Power, I should think)
 
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Matt Musselman
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Eldard wrote:
Fjords (Isn't this just a tile-laying game?)


It has two phases:
1. Take turns laying tiles, and optionally place one of several (three, I think?) houses as an area control starting point on the tile just placed.
2. Take turns placing area control farms which must be adjacent to a house or previously placed farm.

So along the discussion going on here, I'd certainly classify it as Area Control (because you're staking out unanimous control of specific tiles, plus being able to potentially block off whole areas of the map from the other player via clever placement, and scoring is ultimately based on number of areas controlled), and not Area Majority (because only one player can be in each s pot at all).
 
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