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Subject: Le Havre...now what? rss

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Preston Thomas
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Ok, so I have played Le Havre 2 times now and I love it! I have played Agricola, and I think it is also a great game, but a little less so than Le Havre, in my eyes. The problem is the people in my game group already have them. My wife will probably not enjoy this type of game as she prefers lighter fair such as TTR, Carc H&G, and Magic TCG, so it would not get played much, except for perhaps a solo game here or there.

So my question to the community, and I apologize if this has been asked before, but I didn't see anything already on the Le Havre forums, is what other games that fits the mechanic/playstyle of these two games would be worth picking up? My group really enjoys economic games lately, as do I. Our top games right now have to be Power Grid, Le Havre, and Container. I am interested in a game that could perhaps be played solo and that has a decent theme.

I feel like I am always asking these questions, but I respect the community's opinion and often find games thrown out there that I hadn't considered.

So thank you in advance and I look forward to finding that gem.


Preston
 
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Emile de Maat
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I think Caylus is an important game to mention here. It has a similar "worker placement" system as Agricola (and to a lesser extent Le Havre). It is also similar to Le Havre in that players are erecting buildings that are accessible to all players, but do give their owner a small advantage.
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Preston Thomas
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Actually, Caylus was the first game that came to mind. My only real issue with it is that it seems so dry and long for what it is. Also, I do like being able to have a physical representation of what I am building.
 
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David Hoffman
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For what may be considered a "lighter" alternative to Le Havre and Agricola, my wife has been responding well to Stone Age.

It's worker placement but doesn't seem as intense (shhh, don't tell her) as Agricola and Le Havre. Might be worth checking it out.
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Eric Flood
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Age of Steam (not similar, but a heavier game with an economic aspect)
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Mark Tyler
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I suggest you investigate these three games:

Phoenicia
Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery
Leonardo da Vinci
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Uber Banana Bread
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ohbalto wrote:
For what may be considered a "lighter" alternative to Le Havre and Agricola, my wife has been responding well to Stone Age.

It's worker placement but doesn't seem as intense (shhh, don't tell her) as Agricola and Le Havre. Might be worth checking it out.


I have the exact same experience regarding wife, Le Havre & Stone Age.
 
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Железный комиссар
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I tend to link Le Havre with Brass: Lancashire. They're about the same weight / play time. They're both games of economic development. They both involve planning 3-4 turns ahead and adapting to other players as you go. There are plenty of mechanical differences I suppose but those don't really jump out at me.
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Adam Slape
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twinim wrote:
Actually, Caylus was the first game that came to mind. My only real issue with it is that it seems so dry and long for what it is. Also, I do like being able to have a physical representation of what I am building.

Have you actually played Caylus or is this speculation? I do enjoy Le Havre a little more, but I think Caylus is the closest thing to a lateral move from that point.
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James Hamilton
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I really like Le Havre, like Agricola and utterly hate Caylus.

I would be very dissapointed if I came to Caulus after either of the first two.

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Preston Thomas
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Ciaran wrote:
twinim wrote:
Actually, Caylus was the first game that came to mind. My only real issue with it is that it seems so dry and long for what it is. Also, I do like being able to have a physical representation of what I am building.

Have you actually played Caylus or is this speculation? I do enjoy Le Havre a little more, but I think Caylus is the closest thing to a lateral move from that point.


This is completely speculation after reading the rules, some reviews and some session reports. It just doesn't seem like a game for me. The theme is especially not interesting to me, whether it is integral or tacked on, it just seems dry and uninspiring.
 
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Adam Slape
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Well, I don't know what to suggest then.

In the "Thanks" section at the back of Le Havre's rulebook it mentions that the game was inspired by Caylus, so if the designer admits the connection then I don't think there's any question that they have a lot in common. In both games you use resources to create buildings which can be used by you or other players, and you utilize those buildings to convert your resources into money/points. I'm not sure what you mean about not having a "physical representation" of the buildings you create - there are cardboard pieces in Caylus for every building just as there are cards for them in Le Havre.

Of course if you're determined to hate a game before you even try it, then there isn't much point in playing. But I don't find Caylus to be dry, and it's about the same length as in my experience.

Looks like you may just be stuck with Le Havre for now, which certainly isn't a bad thing.
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Preston Thomas
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Well I must say you make a pretty good argument. Perhaps Caylus is something I should revisit with a more open mind. Thanks, Ciaran.
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Andrew Simpson
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Well I'm with James on this one... I really like Le Havre and Agricola but I find Caylus tedious, dry and over-long. Brass, on the other hand, I find strangely interesting, despite some of the weirder mechanisms.
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Michael Potter
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ohbalto wrote:
For what may be considered a "lighter" alternative to Le Havre and Agricola, my wife has been responding well to Stone Age.

It's worker placement but doesn't seem as intense (shhh, don't tell her) as Agricola and Le Havre. Might be worth checking it out.


I too have had much success with Stone Age and my family. I haven't found anyone yet who dislikes it. It is a lighter style of the previous mentioned games. I would prefer to play Le Havre, Agricola and Caylus but, Stone Age is always a good compromise.

*Note: Calyus is not dry if you find some good players. With newbies, the game can be dull since everyone plays their turn as you would expect them too. Good players will deviate and force you to switch plans on the fly. The provost reaches its real power when the math is fully understood.
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Adam Slape
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twinim wrote:
Well I must say you make a pretty good argument. Perhaps Caylus is something I should revisit with a more open mind. Thanks, Ciaran.

Wow, I've never changed someone's mind on the internet! laugh

Of course, I do recommend trying before buying whenever you can, and be sure to let me know how it goes.
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Adam Slape
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By the way, please please please do not play on BSW - it'll ruin just about any game. Give it a chance face-to-face with other players who are also learning. Developing your own strategies and exploring the way the game works together is all part of the fun; getting your ass handed to you while you accidentally click in all the wrong places is definitely not.
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Preston Thomas
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Yeah, I think Caylus will definitely be a try before I buy type of game. I am definitely willing to try it, as I am with just about any game.
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Alan
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Tribune: Primus Inter Pares is excellent for worker placement. Has a few other interesting mechanics. Plays rather quickly, too.

Cuba also has worker placement, though it's a bit more complicated. There are a number of additional game mechanics, including a market. Still, a very fun game.
 
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Mario Aguila
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Caylus is OK, but Age of Empires is more thematic.
 
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Josko Tosic
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I think Caylus is worth trying, at least if you like more complex euros... it isn't dry at all, it just requires wise planning and sometimes you have to adapt to sudden changes of your plans, primarily due to your opponents' moves...it IS thematic, perhaps a bit more for us Europeans If you prefer less complex games, then Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery, Stone Age and The Pillars of the Earth would be a good choice.
 
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Adam Slape
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I don't consider Age of Empires to be an economic game, it's primary theme is area control.
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Rob Judy
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You may want to try Cuba and/or Notre Dame. A great economic game without the worker placement element is Container.
 
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Joe Wyka
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As a fan of heavy economic games myself, and one who also rates the games you mention highly, I recommend you take a look at:

Brass: Lancashire
Age of Steam

Martin Wallace has a pretty unique approach to economic games and while these would be a bit different from Le Havre and Container, they are excellent. You may want to wait on Age of Steam and get Steam instead. It will be the latest version and the system may prove to be more streamlined.

I also think Caylus is excellent, but admittedly it does not hit the table as much as Agricola an Le Havre do. I can't think of a reason why, as I do enjoy it. The manipulation of the provost can lead to directly screwing another player, as opposed to the usual indirect screwage of most worker placement games.

Antiquity is expensive, but in it you also build buildings that you place workers on in order to perform actions. It has a gazillion bits. I don't mind it, though, as I think it sets the experience of playing it apart.

Have you played the economic classic Acquire? Not has heavy as these others, but still quite good. It may be one you can talk your wife into!

I would also recommend Railways of the World, but only if you play it with the Railways of Europe expansion.
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Eric Rampson
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I have to throw out another vote for STONE AGE. It is a much lighter game but if your wife or any other lighter-game-fan in your life enjoys it, it's a hop, skip, and jump from it to LeHavre (it may actually be more like a jump, jump, and a jump but it's still a nice first step).
 
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