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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Which should I buy...C&C:A or Conflict of Heroes? rss

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H. Witzland
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Hi,

I know this might seem like a hard comparison to make, but since I only have limited funds, I wanted to ask...

Which tactical game is more fun for 2 players and takes less time to play...Conflict of Heroes or Command & Colors?

I realize that the period of history are completely different, but I thought I'd ask anyway!

Any observations or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Kevin Duke
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Well, there are a BUNCH of reviews on CoH, but not many that mention CCA in comparison. Mostly they mention ASL (saying CoH is a lot simpler than) and Combat Commander (another hot WWII game).

Several of them speak about CoH being "easy" but it's hard to say if that is compared to ASL or not.

I have briefly seen CoH and not played it-- perhaps someone else on this forum has and can help.

I would be troubled by how many additions, tweaks, variants, and complaints that have already popped up. True, CCA had some of those early on, as some people spotted-- "what no flank bonus?" and assumed it was a mistake that needed fixing.

Clearly, there are some folks who like CoH a lot, altho I don't see very many writing about what seems a common CCA habit-- play a scenario, swap sides and play it again immediately, with enthusiasm... and maybe play it again after that. "Hey, it's only 12:30, that's hardly after midnight-- we have time for another one!."

This is not because there are not many scenarios-- counting C3i editions, there are over 75, with 25 more coming in the next Expansion-- but because the game just doesn't get old and doesn't stop getting exciting. For me anyway.

Read things like "session reports" and see if the flow and the objectives and things like that appeal to you. Some of the "focus" is extremely different in the two games. Chits lend some interesting uncertainty (CoH) but the command cards never fail to challenge me.

I also have a great time with the game solo (which was a real surprise) and the mechanics of CoH make me wonder how well it does there.

I see you posted the same question in the CoH thread and I'll be interested to see what people post there.
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Todd Rewoldt
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Like Kevin, I've never played Conflict of Heroes. Unlike Kevin, I've never seen it either, so I'm useless to you as far as comparisons go. However, if you would like to try a game or three of C&C:Ancients on Vassal, I am happy to help you out there. Just send me a geek mail if interested.

Take care,
Todd
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Jamie Pollock
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Asking this on the CCA forum means you may not get many responses from those who've played CoH. It might have beeen better to ask this on the Recommendations forum? Like those above, I've played CCA and not CoH (though I really would like to) and therefore all I can say is CCA is superb.

Kevin has pretty well managed to capture the feel. It plays fast, is simple to play yet has plenty to do and think about, and most importantly is a tremendous amount of fun. My wife even played it.

My only gripe, albeit a minor one, would be a few of scenarios feel a little bit quick in that they're often concluded when things are just getting exciting and climactic. I guess in many ways this gripe is actually a compliment to the way the game plays. Anyway, this can be easily solved by adding a banner.
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Mark McG
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Well... I've played both, and also ASL. As far as I'm concerned, Conflict of Heroes was not all it was cracked up to be, and I didn't much like it. Compared to ASL, it wasn't gripping, and more importantly from your perspective, I found it took a fair while to play. We were playing (multi-player) platoon actions that were taking 3-4 hours to complete 2-3 turns. So aside from some of the game systems tweaks and what I would regard as a pro-German balance, I thought it took too long for a light game. That could be our issue though.

C&C:A possibly goes to the other extreme, with some lightning fast games where it takes longer to set up than play. I kind of prefer Epic C&C:A because it gives the player(s) more chance to unwind some tactics over the basic, quick thrust and gut game.

So I'd recommend C&C:A, but you would have to expect that in this forum.
 
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Jacovis
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I have played both CoH and C&C:A, and as much fun as CoH is, I think you will get a lot more bang for your buck for C&C:A than CoH. Ultimately this comes down to the fact that C&C:A is very simple to get a good grasp of, can take less time to play and set up (though CoH does not take long either), and is quite simply the best fun you can have for repeated plays and simple fun factor. IMHO.

The other point I would consider is which time period is more interesting to you and your regular gaming partner(s). That may be a big factor for yourself or someone else you game with. However, my regular partner and myself both love the Ancient theme, and World War 2, and I can say that C&C:A has gotten around 90 plays in the past couple of months, typically 5 to 8 games in a row, whereas CoH has come out only once or twice, usually passed over in favor of Combat Commander: Europe

Again, I want to emphasize that CoH is a lot of fun, but for simple, expandable, fun and for maximum replayability, plus the access to detailed and exciting expansions, C&C:A wins hands down. The other benefit C&C:A has is www.ccancients.net , which is an amazing site run by a regular BGG poster, Alessandro Crespi, and which has a lot of fan-made scenarios available to play for Commands and Colors, as well as detailed information about strategies, tactics, and general information about the game and the periods it covers.

The downside to CoH, in this regard, is that it is not expanded much, except for a couple of scenario adaptations on the website, although there is word this will be expanded once the sequel comes out this summer providing more units and maps to play with. Also, whereas CoH comes with 10 "firefights" in the box, plus 5 bonus firefights you can download here. http://www.academy-games.com/index.php/firefights-a-updates/...

C&C:A comes with 15 scenarios in the box, plus GMT has released the Truceless War scenarios, 5 of them, for free on their website for C&C:A. You can download the rules and scenarios here http://www.gmtgames.com/p-32-commands-colors-ancients.aspx

Both games have high quality components of their own type, cardboard counters for CoH and wooden blocks for C&C:A. I love counters, and CoH has some of the best I've seen, but playing C&C with the blocks brings a whole new level of texture and 3-D fun to a tabletop.

Also, if you are more interested in WW2 than Ancients, Memoir 44, while not nearly as good as C&C:A imo, is very similar to C&C:A, but with plastic figures and set in World War 2. It also has a large fan-base and a TON of scenarios on the games website, www.memoir44.com , so again the expandability of that game would be much greater than CoH as well, providing a lot more replayability simply due to variety.

I apologize for the extended jaunt into this topic, but I hope it helps with your decision!

Cheers,
Jacovis

Edit: I wanted to emphasize that I do like CoH quite a bit, and it is a great game, but ultimately Ancients sees the table a lot more, and is more fun to play. I often find myself laughing or applauding my opponent's moves while I play, simply because it's so much fun.
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Michael Conyers
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I own both, for two separate gaming experiences.

I'd consider C&C a fun light game you can play with non-gamers and gamers alike. Anyone who can handle chess can handle C&C

COH to me is alot more involved and I like to play it because I can't (or won't) get my mind around ASL. So it comes out when my ASL buddies come around.

So it depends on what you want, a light or heavy game. Personally I like C&C a whole heck of alot. I don't have to spend oodles of time thinking about the rules, but instead can just have fun playing the game.
 
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Phil McDonald
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I own CoH and have traded C&C:A (not because I didn't like it).

IMHO they are both excellent games, and I would say that you should go with the one who's theme appeals to you most. Ancients or WW2 east front.

Simples !
 
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